Writing to psychologist/therapist, is it appropriate?

[smallstar]

Hi, I have recently been looking into seeing a psychologist or therapist however I don't feel I could make the appointment and just show up. Is it appropriate to write a letter to a Dr. before making an appointment? I have a need to explain myself and would like for the dr. to know about me before I were to meet him. I know myself, and I know that if I were to make an appointment I would be panicked and I would not know what to say. I am not even exactly sure what I am hoping to gain from seeing a dr. but I feel like I am in need of some help. Everyone on here seems so communicative but when I am uncomfortable I completely shut down. I can see myself getting to my appointment and just leaving. As much as I want help I am scared to death to actually go to the dr. I know this is their job and they deal with all sorts of people but I am scared to death that I will get there and make a fool of myself. I have never been to any kind of therapy as an adult and I wouldn't even know where to begin once I got there. When I was in middle school I saw a counselor but it wasn't my choice, it was through the school and I was there because of concern from some teachers, I didn't even know that's where I was going. Can anyone help me with this? I would like to write to the dr's office but am afraid that it is inappropriate and even if I was able to write to them I fear afterwards I would be to embarassed to show up. Does anyone have any advice as to how to get started? I just know there is no way I could walk into a drs office sit down and just start talking, it wouldn't happen. This said, I still truly need help and am not sure how to go about it.

[finding my way]

I think that is a really good idea! You know you will freeze at the first meeting, you know you need help, and writing things down and submitting them first is an excellent solution. I used to write little papers for my therapist and drop them off. It was very helpful to begin a session with that as our jumpstart, and he didn't mind at all.

[Lie_low]

Hi sadstar,

Would it be possible for you to email a therapist that you are considering making an appointment with? I know that many therapists, including some of the ones listed on this website; have their email contact information available online. I was too afraid to call my therapist so my first contact with him was through email. As finding my way said, writing can be a really helpful way of expressing and clarifying our thoughts and feelings. I have trouble talking in therapy so emailing my therapist has helped me to say things that I would have not been able to express in person.

[smallstar]

hi, thanks for your responses, I have seen websites with email info. I just wasn't sure what the intended purpose of the email option was. I know I would do better if I could express myself through writing but I didn't know how appropriate it was and I had a friend tell me not to do it, just make the appt. and go. She is able to do that, she doesn't understand that I can't. I just don't want to write unless its the normal thing to do, I don't want to make a jerk of myself before I even get to the appt.

[mscat]

Hi there,
Typically on the first visit the therapsit/Dr is the one who does the most talking . He or she will ask you very basic easy to answer questions. I promise! It is easy to get through. this person is a professional and will be understanding to your feelings and needs. He or she is not going to judge you one bit. It is always uncomfortable the first time and they ar every aware of that . you are going to be just fine . The first time going is always the most difficult, and you are going to be able to be able to do this.
Your friend is right. Just go and get it over with. You will be very grateful that you did. I've written stuff down , however not at the first session though. If your feeling very uncomfortable, maybe you can call the therapist and talk to her/him on the phone first. perhaps a warm up session. At least then you will know what this person will sound like , and it will ease your fears.

[Lie_low]

If you can’t handle a phone call, writing is ok. I am so afraid of talking that I honestly believe that I would have never gotten any help if doing so involved calling someone over the phone. I actually told my therapist about how afraid I was about trying to get help before we met in person. If you’re up to it, then call. If not, email. From what you have said you need help. Your friend doesn’t seem to understand that verbally expressing things is not an option for all of us. For whatever reason, sometimes that is not a realistic . If I waited until I was ready to do that I might already be dead. Don’t let that keep you from getting help. You deserve to get better. Do what you can, sadstar. Let us know how it goes.

[smallstar]

Hi LieLow thank you so much for the reassurance, you're right people don't understand what it is like to not be able to verbally express yourself. I have had a letter I wrote and it's been in my purse for a couple of weeks now, but I think I may try emailing instead. I am actually learning alot from this website, more than I expected, but than again I am realizing that even though there is support and understanding here, it's not going to fix anything. I'm not trying to be ungrateful I just have been feeling a little down, I don't know what I expected, or what I was thinking I just so badly want things to change and I realize when it comes down to it that it's all on me, I need to take the steps to make that happen and I find that really scary. I really appreciate your response and it is comforting to hear from you. Thanks again,

[Mark]

I think writing a letter is a fine idea, but you probably want to take some precautions while doing it.

Keep in mind that this letter will go into your file. Don't put anything down in it that you aren't comfortable with being in your medical record. Best to compose it and then wait a few days and then read it over and edit out any parts that do not seem necessary or prudent to share. take some time to compose it so that it is concise - a rambling letter will be harder to follow than a concise one.

Put it on paper, not in email. Also - an email could be inadvertantly forwarded or deleted whereas a paper letter is much harder to copy and lose track of.

An introductory letter will be nice for your therapist to have, and it will give you an opportunity to organize your thoughts.

Mark

[Lie_low]

Sorry Mark. When I suggested email I meant that it may be a way just to make an appointment for people who are really fearful of any sort of help. Perhaps I should have been clearer. I certainly would not suggest pouring your heart out or writing personal things to someone that you don’t even know…I would definitely not recommend that, and I would never do that myself.

[JustTrying]

Ok this is what I HAVE to do... I write a letter to my Thearpist... i take it to the meeting with me.. I write because otherwise I will say everything is fine..... I let him Read it.. we discuss it and then I take it home with me. My Therapist "Tells" me he does not write most things down... because I am paranoid about others finding out my deep dark secrets.....


JT

[smallstar]

Ok this is what I HAVE to do... I write a letter to my Thearpist... i take it to the meeting with me.. I write because otherwise I will say everything is fine..... I let him Read it.. we discuss it and then I take it home with me. My Therapist "Tells" me he does not write most things down... because I am paranoid about others finding out my deep dark secrets.....


JT

I think that is a great idea. I am a big fan of writing rather than speaking, :o
I am just happy to hear that it is not completly inappropriate to write because this will help me alot. I had heard otherwise and I was quite upset at hearing it. I just need time to sit down and think before I write, try not to stray and only put what is important. I am not so paranoid just embarassed and because of that I am unable to say it out loud if that makes sense? Thank you Just Trying

[paula]

I understand where your coming from!

I too am petrified of going to the doctors, but unfortunately, I have to attend on a weekly basis along with seeing my Therapist!

It wasn't long ago since i was in your position! Not knowing what to expect? How to deal with situations etc,

What I did was, leave it all to them to ask the questions! That way, I answered in my way and told them what I wanted them to know? I know that these people are there to help you, but some of us find it extremely hard to come out with our true feeling, especially when you've been hurt so many times!

Good Luck!

[JustTrying]

Sadstar.. I find it helpful not just with the therapist but with hubs... I write the letter note etc... and it says what I Cannot say out loud. BUT then they know what is bothering me and we can discuss it....

Good luck.....

JT


PS Believe it or not ... unless I am drunk.. I am VERY shy.. can't even talk to my husbaqnd of 21 yrs!!! So I know what you are talking about... the thing about therapist ... they have probiably heard it all already.. unless they are new... then there are ones you relate to and those you don't... may take you a few trys.....

[nancyannee]

sadstar12, I think that is a great idea. I too have a fear of talking to doctors. Maybe this idea will help me get the courage to finally seek help. I have been thinking of finding a doctor, and maybe printing some of the posts I have written here. who know? I have to get the courage to find one first....

[ASchwartz]

Hi Everyone,

I am joining with all of those who agree with writing if talking is uncomfortable. In addition, I hope all of those of you who are fearful about talking to your doctor will read and think about this:

Doctors are just people like the rest of us. They are there to help and, if you have a doctor who does not seem to help then find another doctor. Doctors have feelings, are fearful, have arguements at home, bleed when they are cut, worry and go through all the same things we all do. They are no different from you and me.

Hope this helps but I would like to know what you think?

Allan:)

[nancyannee]

Hi Allan, what you say makes sense. However, I am amazed when someone says..."my doctor". I have never had a regular doctor and only go for something acute, like potential broken bones or infections for antibiotics. I tried to reach out in e-mail to local NAMI representatives, but they were not receptive to any communication. at least that was the impression I got.

Calling a doctor and actually going is so foreign to me, I might as well start speaking Swahili.:(

[smallstar]

Hi Allan, what you say makes sense. However, I am amazed when someone says..."my doctor". I have never had a regular doctor and only go for something acute, like potential broken bones or infections for antibiotics. I tried to reach out in e-mail to local NAMI representatives, but they were not receptive to any communication. at least that was the impression I got.

Calling a doctor and actually going is so foreign to me, I might as well start speaking Swahili.:(


Hi nancyannee, I think if you maybe were to write a letter first, that way the dr. would know what you were all about, I don't know I just feel like I need to explain myself first, and than if they feel they can help me, or that they understand me, I will make an appointment, I just need to feel comfortable first, which isn't always easy to achieve. I understand what Allan says, but it's not so much that it's a dr that bothers me, I don't like talking about myself period, to anyone, but I think there comes a point where if you need help badly enough you need to reach out, for me it will be scary but I will try to deal with it. The fact that maybe afterwards I would feel better drives me to try and get over my anxieties and just do it. Still...easier said than done, right? :o I don't know I'll hopefully figure it out soon, I'll let you know

[nancyannee]

Dawn, I so agree. The whole process is scary. If I had the courage to go to a doctor, I would have the courage to talk or even write about it. When I try to express myself, I get all jumbled up and the words escape me.

Just participating on this site has sent me into major anxiety attacks. I am now worrying over who will see my blogs or posts...worrying about what they think,when I know it does not really matter, because it is how I feel and what I think. I wish knowing that would prevent the panic,but it does not....I am freaking out today bad. :(

[smallstar]

I am able to write freely on here so maybe you don't see just how much anxiety I have about actual social interactions, and I would definitely consider the dr a social interaction. My point is, if you sit there and think about it, what is the worst that can happen? You go, if you feel very uncomfortable just don't go again. That is my plan. If I can't handle it I will just leave, I don't have any fear in leaving. But I am willing to at least put some good thought into the pro/cons of seeing the dr. I am at a point in my life where I have several things holding me back, and I am getting older, I really want to be able to move forward and actually have a life and that is why it is worth it to me to put myself out there and at least give a good effort into improving. Anyway that's why I am really glad to hear that it is not completely inappropriate to write to a dr before making an appointment, or even after the patient/dr relationship is established I can write things down and give it to the dr. That is my best bet at getting help. Please consider doing this for yourself. If you don't need to live battling like you seem to everyday you should try to look at your options. And like someone else said in an earlier post, I don't think that we can shock the drs, they deal with all kinds of people. The only person you're hurting by not getting that help is yourself. That said I can't exactly sit here and preach to you because I myself have not yet taken that step. But I will, eventually :)

[JustTrying]

In order to get real help .. you have to be honest. If I do not write a note or letter first.. when my Therapist asks " Well how are we today?" I will say" We are just fine...." sometimes true sometimes a lie. But it is easier to put on that big ol smile and say everything is fine and then leave .. get beer and then get drunk, depressed etc and then call for help.

My therapist would rather talk to me sober. And that is how we work it.... I do not write all the time.. but if something is really bothering me I do. And do the Letters always make sense? NO! But he can see that too and see that my thoughts are all over the place or I am overly paranoid about something etc and it helps him to know the right questions to ask????

Any way it works for me


BTW.. I did change my user name .. only because I have been Gabbyslb for 25 yrs and I did a google on my name and some of my posts from some other sites showed up... NOT THIS SITE.... but it makes me feel safer because I feel I can talk freer(SP) ... I do not want my husbands boss , mother , sister etc to read the posts I do on this site... Most people I could care less .. either like me or go away... but there are some that it may cause problems for others like hubs or the kids.....


JT ( AKA GABS)

[smallstar]

........................

[ASchwartz]

Hi Nancyanne,

Why do you care what others will think if they somehow found your posts here (and that is very unlikely)? What is it you fear could happen if someone you know reads your posts? Think about it: what is the worst that could happen??

Allan :)

[smallstar]

.....................

[JustTrying]

OH ALLEN>>> what is the worst that could happen if they read MY posts??? My husband could loose his job. My Kids couold be kicked out of school.. my Grandkids could loose their future.... IF>>>>> AND i SAY IF... I REALLY TOLD THE TRUTH??????


I still hold bacfk because the internet is the internet.. and then those that are smart like me can look up IP adresses off of the post...,..

Maybe I am paranoid... but Allen there is no where on the NET you are safe... as far as me caring ????? I don't ... BUT when it hurts my kids, my husband , my grandkids...... I care.. I do not give shit about me, never have or will... my motto???? like me or go the fuck away

OK Allen I am fixin to make you mad... You are not one of us... MHO>>>>>> which means .. my humble opinion.. we are an experamoint for you and Mark. You are trying to write a paper or something.


I love ths site .. I do not care I need my "friends"

JT

[karai]

This is for Mark,
Hi Mark, What do you mean by saying "don't put anything down in it (the letter) that you aren't comfortable with being in your medical record...and edit out any parts that do not seem necessary or prudent to share." Am I naive in assuming that all medical records and files are supposed to be confidential? I thought the whole point of talking to your doctor, medical or psychological, was to tell the truth. If this is not so, then what is the point in seeing a therapist for help if you can't tell them your deepest, darkest, most ugliest secrets so that we can get help in fixing ourselves, if there is no confidentiality? I need to know this for sure because I finally made that first phone call and the psychologist is supposed to call me tomorrow to set up an appointment with me (he wasn't available today; thank God I read this post before I see him!). How much can I actually say without risk of being humiliated and hated if family or friends, or even strangers, found out what is being said? Will I be wasting his and my time? I really need to know if there is no such thing as client/dr. privilege anymore, or if there ever was! Thank you.

[Mark]

Karai,

Communications between a psychologist and a client/patient are protected communications in all American jurisdictions so far as I am aware (I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination). The same is true (I assume - not sure though) for most other categories of licensed professionals who do psychotherapy. Even so - there are always limits on this privacy. The notable limits typically involve mandatory disclosure by the therapist to authorities (e.g., police, court officers) in cases where there is a strong suspicion that suicide or homicide or significant abuse (of children, elders) will occur. Many therapists are sophisticated about stuff like self-harm and understand that it is not a suicide attempt and will not break confidentiality when faced with self-harm, but until you really understand who you are working with, it is not necessarily wise to just assume that your brand new therapist will understand where you are coming from. It is a terrible balancing act that therapists have to pull off - protecting privacy which is essential for you to feel safe - necessary for you to heal - but at the same time protecting your (and those around you) physical safety which is demanded by law.

It is a necessity that therapists keep patient records, but therapists are aware that their records could be demanded by a court and reviewed by outsiders - this would be the case for instance, if you were to claim malpractice, or if you were to kill yourself and a legal investigation of your therapist was undertaken. So what therapists do is to be careful in the manner in which they make notes. They may write down the general themes you are discussing but not any sort of verbatim play by play statements, for example. There are some details that might be best left out of the record at times, and this is okay so long as the record remains an accurate reflection of what is happening in the therapy across time.

If you write down all your details with your therapist and give your therapist a copy of that material, you are forcing the therapist's hand in a manner of speaking, becuase that written matter will be put into the record and the therapist won't have the option of deciding how to describe it. that is what I'm saying. You just have to be aware that what you write for your therapist may possibly become part of a public inquiry. This isn't likely but it is a possibility you are wise to plan for. I'm not trying to frighten anyone away from disclosing important secrets to a therapist. Only suggesting that people take the time to get to know their therapist and the boundaries of the relationship before doing so. It is fully appropriate to have a discussion with the therapist about what the boundaries are and how things might be described in the record or not.

[Mark]

JT and others with similar privacy concerns:

It is important to me that the contents of this community be a public record and spiderable by google. I want people to be able to find this place based on what is being discussed here - that is part of the mission of this place. That said, I do not have a problem with people changing their names from time to time or starting up with new identities. I understand the need for privacy and will support that as much as I can within the boundaries of the community mission.

Mark

[JustTrying]

Mark and all


2 points... yes I understand wanting this site to be googleable!! ( Is that a word!! LOL!) I do not mind "people" reading my posts but I changed my name so that people that may effect my life do not know for sure who they are reading about.

I talk about abuse, sexuality, self-harm, suicidal thoughts and just about anything on this site and I just do not want my kids friends to have that information for example.... I think you get what I am saying...


2nd... My Therapist.. has told me he takes notes but does not write down too many details. Not that I have ever REALLY been going to hurt anyone but he said just by telling him I feel that way he is compelled to have me evaluated.

I too do not want to scare people away from getting help. I am still looking for the "right" help.

MY THERAPIST that I talk to now I have known for 15 yrs. Grant you he is of no great help except that I KNOW I can tell him ALMOST anything. I know he means to help, but he just does not get me. but anyway that is another story and I am still looking for a good match.

OH AND 3rd point!!!! I didn't mean anything bad about this site maybe being a type of experiment.... This site may give professionals an insite into things and behaviors that they may not get to see in person. Because it is the web.. someone may say more than they normally would.. And then perhaps you "professionals" watch and see how we may help each other and interact with each other....


ALLEN.... didn't mean to go on the ATTACK! Just that people that do not have an MI and or an addiction can be very well meaning. Can study this and that.. but unless you live it you can't really know.. sorry

JT

[karai]

Hi Mark,
Thank you for your detailed explanation of what "confidentiality" really means. This gives me a lot to think about. It's such a complex issue--so much to consider by both the therapist and the client on how much to reveal and how much to record. I always saw it as a black and white situation--that what was discussed and recorded was only between the client and the therapist, period! I guess I am naive to assume so much. I will definitely heed your advice on getting to know the therapist first before revealing all. I really appreciate you taking the time to clarify this for me. Thanks again.

[nancyannee]

Allan,
it is not so much as "why I care" about what people read. It is this you need to understand. My WHOLE life has been in keeping my secret. I have decided to open up here BECAUSE I finally want people to read about my life. I understand every one has their own story, but I have NEVER fully shared mine with anybody. Other mental health web sites I have joined and was not this honest with them...so this is a first. complete honest thoughts out there for the world to see....for the first time ever..to me this is monumental.

I hear voices, seen things and people that are not there, believe that I am an experiment in the making. The thoughts, beliefs and ideas that I have are not considered sane or normal. Yeah, I worry about what people think it is what I do.

[Lisa11]

I can see myself getting to my appointment and just leaving. As much as I want help I am scared to death to actually go to the dr. I know this is their job and they deal with all sorts of people but I am scared to death that I will get there and make a fool of myself.

Lisa11

[karai]

Hi Lisa11,
I know how you feel! My first appointment is tomorrow and I'm sitting here with my stomach in knots and my heart beating a little too fast. But, from what I've read on this site on other posts, it seems a lot of people felt the same way before they went to their first appointment too. Could it be the judgmental thing, or the fear of being "exposed"? For me it's a little of both. It's safe hiding in my head where nobody knows me or can "see" me or hear me--just me in there. But, talking to the therapist destroys that comfort zone---now somebody else will know my trash! Ugh. stomachs churning worse now. I figure, I'll try my darndest to keep that appointment tomorrow just to see how I'll feel afterward. New experience, might as well try it once!
So, I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. Keep your appointment and let me know how it went. We can compare notes. Good Luck!

[Mark]

Going to see an unknown therapist for the first time can be terrifying. It can also be liberating. It depends on how you look at it - the particular way you need to see it. It's an opportunity to "make a fool of yourself" is one way to see it, but it can also an opportunity to be listened to and taken seriously. At the very least, it is an opportunity to begin the process of getting comfortable enough with another human being to be able to (some day) open up to them despite the fact that you feel so ashamed and embarrassed and unworthy.

Some people like to jump into swimming pools. I don't recommend that approach for people who are feeling fearful about sharing with a new therapist. Instead, I recommend the "big toe" approach, at least I do if you have the luxury of not being confined to just a few sessions that your insurance company will pay for. Stick your big toe into the water by sharing just a little bit about what is bringing you in, and then you can simply say that you are not comfortable sharing more and that is totally okay. It may take a while before you are feeling up to the task of sharing. Ask questions about the safety of the situation - ask about the limits of confidentiality and things like that. Ask about the worst case fears - such as "under what circumstances will you attempt to hospitalize me"? Get all this out in the open and have the opportunity to feel in your gut whether the therapist feels safe. Give it a few weeks and then decide whether to jump in the rest of the way. This is okay, and indeed how the process is supposed to work in an ideal land. The only reason it might need to accellerate is when therapy cannot be paid for other than insurance and insurance is hostile to therapy and won't fund more than 5 sessions or something like that (which is unfortunately quite common).

Mark

[karai]

Hi Dr.Mark,
Thanks for that great "big toe" approach. I think, though, for now I will use my baby toe and work my way up to the big toe. I did go to my first appointment yesterday. I don't really know if it went as good, or bad, as I expected because I came out feeling numb (see my post from yesterday in "Reading too much" in this forum). Anyway, I think all of your suggestions about asking questions, especially about confidentiality (a big worry for me) and the hospitalization one (a totally horrible thought!) is so important. I will keep them in mind--actually, I'm going to write them down so I don't forget to ask. I'm so glad you replied here, Dr. Mark. You always have great advice, stuff that I would never think of especially since I would be pre-occupied with admitting things in therapy that I don't want to admit! Thank you!

[Just Me]

WOW, wish I had found this post sooner! Scary doesn't cover making your first appointment. All it amounted to was a QNA and the questions were as simple to answer as if he had asked me if I like puppies. He was also very intuitive in knowing when there was something that was hitting a nerve that I didn't want hit so he redirected the conversation. That was probably the most respectful conversation I've ever had with anyone.

I would have found it very helpful if on the front page of this site where I had originally googled, had there been an article explaining the process, what will and won't happen on an initial visit, I'm sure it wouldn't have made it easy but it would have made it less scary. It would have also made it easier knowing just how anxious most people are going their first time and just how wrong we all were. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... but hindsight doesn't help you take the very first step.

[ASchwartz]

Hi Smallstar,

One of the things that I suggest you do is to make a clear list of the things that are troubling you and hold that list in front of you to look at and even read, if you must, for the first session. I had several patients do just that when they first came to see me.

Let me explain:

Different therapists work in different ways. Over the years I was one of the therapistss who, when a patient called me for an appointment, allowed the patient to tell me why they wanted to come in: if they wanted to do that. I never asked over the phone but it became easy to determine who wanted that and who did not. In that way, the person and I had a good idea of what to expect for the first session. This would take five or ten minutes on the phone.

However, there are therapists who do not work that way and they are excellent therapists but they want to meet the person face to face before any important conversations. I was always flexible, some are and some are not and some are in between. There is no right wrong here.

A therapist knows that you are calling because you have some issues. Again, make a list, even of what you want to say on the telephone: such as, "Dr. I am having lots of anxiety and really need to talk to someone about it and I found your name."

Make a list of the problems you want to discuss with the therapist at first visit: your symptoms such as "I cannot sleep or I am depressed or I broke up with my boy friend, or, I am drinking too much or I am shy around people or, it is hard to talk to anyone and I am even scared right now." Like that.

Depending on the style of therapy, the therapist may ask you about your family history, childhood, friends, dating, marriage, etc. Some therapists are more structured and some are less so.

There were always some people who, when they called me for an appointment, asked me if I am one of the quiet therapists or if I do a lot of talking. My answer was that I was one who talked a lot. Many people with anxiety find this very comforting.

I hope this helps you and the others reading this. I even had people who wrote lists so long that they never got through them. That is fine. If having a longer list helps, bring a longer list. You keep the list and use it to remind you of what to say.

You know what: I found that even the most very nervous of people, once they got started talking, with or without a list, could not stop and were surprised by how much they could talk.

You will be nervous but you can do this.

Let me know about any other questions.

Allan :)

[butterfly29]

Hi Small Star..... What I did before I met my T is to make a list of questions you want to ask. Don't be afraid. Ask anything you want. Remember this T if you agree to see him will be working for you. So you need to find one that you feel comfortable with. You will know when you meet him/her. Trust your gut. Then what I did was have a consultation on the phone first and that is where I asked all these questions. It's okay to make several calls till you find one you feel comfortable with. You'd be amazed how much you can tell talking on the phone with someone. If you choose a T and he/she sounds good on the phone, make an app. But if you get there and you see that person is not right for you, do not be afraid to end it. It's okay and you are taking care of yourself. A very important thing to do.

Hope this helped some.

hugs,
butterfly

[smallstar]

Hi butterfly! Thanks for your suggestions, my only problem with that is I can't trust my gut! My gut is always wrong, I'm not kidding, I can Never make the right decision, For instance, right now, me responding to this post is probably wrong. I am not exaggerating I am impossibly wrong all the time. Okay maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit but I have never understood that statement, trust your gut, well I understand it, I just can't do it. On a side note, I hope you are doing well and thanks!

[humble1]

I think I understand what you mean when you say your gut is always wrong, or at least I have a similar condition at times. But, before I talk about that, I have just one little tiny suggestion, that you try and eliminate the words "always" and "never" from your vocabulary for a little while. I know this might seem trivial, but they are powerful words in terms of how they can reinforce a negative self image. Both of those terms appear in your last post when you refer to your judgement and instincts.

Even if they are just words, the concious act of catching yourself using them in expression, and changing them to a less dichotomous context, can help you start thinking differently about your situation a little bit. Try and use something with a little less finality. It pains me to see you beat yourself up.:)

As far as trusting your gut, my experience with my own situation (I am just a smidge introverted) has been that the more concerned I am about the outcome of a particular situation, the less likely I am to get a correct interpretation of it emotionally, in my "gut." If I perceive or superimpose the prospect of ridicule or rejection into a situation, it makes my gut reaction an attempt to avoid these things rather than what would have been an initially appropriate reaction. And with such things as ridicule and rejection at stake, my reaction is inevitably nervous and off-putting. People can sense that need for acceptance, and it can make them uncomfortable. Then I just feed off of that discomfort, and this whole cascading process of decaying behavior kicks in. It sucks. Essentially, the more I want to be understood, the less likely I will be.

Anyway, something that I have worked on, and something I have seen as a suggestion in another response to one of your other threads on this site, is the practice of just being honest from the get go. I have practiced admitting when I am nervous rather than attempting to conceal it. It puts that right up front, and for the most part people respond supportively and sympathetically to that honest statement, whereas they respond (understandably so) ambiguously to attempts to conceal it.

But what can I do to help? Ummmmmmm....well, I know this. As far as my own "gut instincts" are concerned, when I get that feeling in my stomach, it is an indication that what I am about to say is very likely to produce odd glances from other people, so I practice not expressing myself until I have dealt with that feeling. I have added stock phrases to my social repertoire, "I need to think," or "give me a second." Anything that can take the immediacy out of a situation can help. Sometimes it is just that "you must respond now!" imperative that can make me freeze up. When I take that away, my instincts usually improve somewhat.

Anyhow, I predict that as you become more comfortable expressing yourself (which you will!) and as you begin to feel more tied in to the world around you, sort of reach equilibrium, you will find that your instincts begin to become more trustworthy.

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with your writing to a therapist (which is a stellar idea!) but I was just following the evolution of the thread.

Take Care,

Brian.

[smallstar]

Hi Brian, thanks for your time. You know I never really thought much about negative thoughts and such until I joined this website. I didn't realize I even had such negative thoughts, I guess I don't pay much attention. Now that it has been brought up I will try to pay more attention to this, I don't think it really makes a difference though, I mean I don't know that it affects me. I guess it's just who I am, I don't know if that's something that I'm in control of, the way I think I mean, it just kind of is. I guess you're right, when it comes to ridicule and rejection, those are probably two of the scariest things I can think of. I think this must be something that could cause one to not really try anything, I do fear outcomes, and I guess I have found that by avoiding things altogether I can definitely avoid and ridicule or rejection. I think I fear rejection more than ridicule, gosh, the more I type these words the more I don't like them. I don't think I really have a problem telling someone that I am nervous or worried but just because I say that doesn't make me any less nervous in fact I would say it makes me more worried because than I wonder what the person is thinking of me. It's all so complicated, you know? I think that every time I hit "submit reply" on this website I flinch a little bit because I worry what people will think of what I put, or that I might be so off with a reply and maybe I didn't even understand what the person was asking, or I might have accidentally offended someone. But anyway I guess these are all things I just need to get over, but it's just not that easy. Thanks for your thoughts, I will try to see if I can use some of your ideas in my interactions with others, maybe it will help.

[humble1]

You certainly know yourself better than anyone else does, so you have the home field advantage when it comes to knowing what will help you.

I would consider my efforts here a success if just one thing I wrote actually helped somebody.

As far as certain things being a result of who you are and how you think, I will say that it Is possible to change how you think about some things, and in turn that does change who you are to a degree. Certain synaptic paths in the brain are very much like a literal path that one would walk on. If you walk on it every day, it becomes larger, more worn, and more likely to be used again. Conversely, if this path is used less and less, it becomes smaller, less worn, and eventually falls into disrepair. This is a grossly oversimplified analogy, but there is truth to it. I am living proof:) I have (or had, more accurately) panic disorder, as you may or may not have read, and setting aside all of the symptoms and whatnot, essentially panic attacks are the result of a thought or impulse inappropriately triggering ones' fight or flight response. It is a really sucky disorder, by the way.

But anyhoo, I had to teach my brain to divert that thought; I had to create new synaptic pathways. I won't go into this too much, but I am just putting this out there to give you hope. For me, changing the way I thought about certain things was a difficult and conscious process, but the way that my identity changed was entirely passive; I didn't even notice it, but other people who hadn't seen me for a long time would often remark that I seemed way more level, completely different in certain ways.

I certainly don't maintain that not saying things like always and never will change your personality that much, but observing things like that make a person more conscious of how they both project themself and how they percieve themself, and I think that is one aspect of getting better.

I know what you mean about flinching a little when you put up a post. My own particular anxiety is that someone is going to tell me to mind my own business, to butt-out.

Take care,

Brian.

[smallstar]

I understand what you're saying I guess I just don't know how to change the way I think. I've read alot since joining here on negative thinking and cbt and I find it interesting, I just don't know how to think different. Although I have noticed that since it's been pointed out I do notice the negative thoughts more often, I catch myself but I don't know what to do with it. By the way, I'd never tell you to but out, I don't think anyone would, that's why they're posting, so someone will but in :)

[malign]

Well, now that my butt has permission ... ;-)

First thing I'm going to ask you to do, before you read further, is tell yourself, "Self, no matter what he tells me, I'm a good person, and he knows it. There may be behaviors that I want to change, but that will be my choice, and doesn't affect my basic goodness."

Heck, I'm tempted to stop here and just have you repeat that, over and over.

Anyway, I know it's the anxiety talking, and you're beginning to see that. But you're trying sooo hard. That's something you probably aren't able to hide completely, and people can sense it. Without a lot of communication, he probably will misunderstand it, and then you'll misunderstand his response, and so on. You've got to get to the anxiety first.

I'm not going to talk about the pills. I don't think they're helping you, in the long run, but I recognize that's not going to change now. Instead, how about trying some things to supplement them? Whenever you start worrying about something (like this guy), start asking yourself, "How bad is it really?"

For instance, there are actually a lot of other guys out there. In fact, I understand we're now the second most common kind of human. It's hard to walk down the street without bumping into more of us.

Okay, I'm being silly, but for a reason. The more you build up the danger, the more you "awful-ize" the result, the more fear you feel. A little silliness thrown in can make a world of difference. Even if you're not ready for that yet, if you can calm yourself down enough to look at the real consequences, rather than the ones the anxiety is showing you, you may be able to get enough perspective to fight off the fear on your own.

"What am I afraid of?"
"How bad is it really?"
"What can I do about it?"

Those won't be easy, at first. I suggest you talk each separate fear out with as many people as you can, here if you can't talk to someone in person. Get other people's perspectives, particularly on how bad is it really. Other people might also have ideas you didn't think of for things to do about it.

So, returning to our introduction, you're a good person. You have anxiety, and that's hurting you, wasting a lot of your time and nearly all of your energy. There are small things you can do each time it happens, because you don't deserve to feel bad all the time.

[Mark]

I do notice the negative thoughts more often, I catch myself but I don't know what to do with it.

So - it's a two part movement that needs to occur in order for something like CBT to work. The first part involves becoming conscious that a particular thought is occuring. This is in itself an achievement. Then you have to do something with the thought. The thing that needs to be done is to take the thought apart like an engineer would. Understand what it is sitting on (the assumptions that make that thought seem reasonable even when it isn't) and take those apart too. So consciousness of the tip of the iceburg leads you to examine deeper layers of assumptions. And when you shine a light on these assumptions (what CBT calls "core beliefs") you often find that they are based on a set of easy-to-make errors. The human mind is not like a computer - we aren't by nature logical and internally consistent. Instead, we are mostly emotional, with a thin layer of logic floating above it all. So the errors we make are generally those which make sense emotionally but when you look at them logically are not based on anything solid. Like the belief "I'm a failure" that many people walk around with. That belief is often supported more by a feeling that this must be the case, rather than by any strict accounting of a set of particular failures. There may have been one failure that was blown out of proportion (the cognitive error known variously as over-generalization or magnification), or there may have been several failures, but also numerous successes that balance them out overall but which are being overlooked (the cognitive error known as focusing-on-the-negative - or whatever name they've got for it these days). And what you're trying to do here is to figure out where your core assumptions are exaggerated or not paying attention to the larger field of data. This helps you to understand the systematic ways that you are likely to misunderstand your own achievements (in this particular example). Then - when you next find yourself thinking "I'm a failure", you can whip out your list of the cognitive errors that you yourself know you tend to make, and start *disputing* that you are a failure. You can do this informally in your head, but that isn't as good as actually writing it out on paper in diary form, or using one of the worksheets that therapists provide for this purpose.

If anyone is interested, we can start a forum here where people can submit their depression-causing thoughts, and we can all collectively work on helping people to identify the assumptions that are being made, and the types of cognitive (thinking) errors that are occuring. We can help each other to learn how to do this.

Would you like to be the first poster in this new forum, Smallstar?

Mark

[smallstar]

Hi. Hmmmm, too much to think about. Malign, thanks, I love the idea of considering the actual consequences, not just the feeling, I guess that's the word. It seems it could really help put things in order, I mean ugh I can't figure out what I'm trying to say. But I think it's a good idea. But on the other, thinking about the guy thing, I think that my fear has more to do with what people with think of me if it doesn't work out, not so much how I'll feel, I mean I'd be upset, but I really Hate when poeple ask me how it's going with him, namely my parents and coworkers, they are all rooting for this probably more than I am. Well enough about that. By the way he started talking to me again last night, long story, but yay! I think. I mean I'm glad he's talking to me but now I kind of feel that pressure again. I guess that is something I have to deal with though if I ever want to get anywhere. Anyway, this is about negative thoughts, I got off track, sorry. But I have a good feeling, about being able to work through the negative thoughts, I think I am capable of doing that, I'm kind of excited about it. I'd like to get my hands on some of those worksheets Mark was talking about, I will look into because I am definitely willing to do the work necessary. I would love to see what it would be like if I could actually get rid of the thoughts, then the anxiety.

Mark, I guess what you mean about being mostly emotional with a thin layer of logic would explain why that I understand everything people say but don't seem to be able to apply it. I never really noticed negative thoughts before but now when I'm writing on here I will notice what it says, that's how I've been able to pick out the thoughts, that's why I think I may be able to fix the way I think, especially now with what I have learned from you and Malign. I would post in a new forum, I would only be worried that I wouldn't do it right, but I think that's a great idea for a new forum.

Thanks

[karai]

Hi Mark,
On 4-14-09, in discussing questions to ask the therapist, you said "Ask about the worst case fears - such as 'under what circumstances will you attempt to hospitalize me?' " Well, today I had my 2nd session and did just that. I brought up the question of suicide and he said that if he believed there was imminent danger of harm to myself or to others, that that would be a condition for commitment. Now I'm totally terrified of just mentioning the word. I wanted to know what he felt was going through my mind when I googled "suicide" a couple of weeks ago but I stopped short for the fear of involuntary hospitalization. I feel I did that search for informational purposes, perhaps out of curiosity. I know I was not suicidal. Yet, now I will never know why he thinks I really did it. That's a big chunk of stuff going on in my mind that will never get answered. I fear bringing up the topic and I know it's going to bother me forever. I didn't want to dwell on that word and changed the subject almost immediately. This not being able to ask him "certain" questions really preoccupied my mind since I did not say much during the rest of the session. How do I bring up the subject w/o fear of being committed? How do I phrase certain questions so that it doesn't seem as if I'm suicidal or going to do harm to myself? Or should I?

[malign]

Kara, I know it's hard, when you're so afraid of being committed. But what makes you think that asking him questions about suicide is the same as being in imminent danger of doing it?

I've talked to my therapist about suicidal thoughts, about actual, well "gestures" rather than "attempts" maybe, but she didn't immediately go off and call someone to take me away. She did ask if I thought that was necessary, and listened to my response. She suggested many things, like hotlines or calling her or going to the emergency room. I even signed a "contract" that if I felt that way again, I would do one of those things instead.

Granted, these are different therapists; I can't make an absolute statement of what yours will do. But I can assure you that despite my being completely open about it with my therapist, the only time I've spent in the hospital is when _I_ decided it was needed.

Do you think you need it? If not, and you can give a convincing statement why not, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Maybe a useful follow-up question would be, What would convince him that you might be in imminent danger?

[paula]

Hi Kari

I must agree with malign.

I see my Therapist on a weekly basis, along with my doctor. Because I am on the at risk register! Suicidal... Which I have attempt a couple of times already.

Because of the way I'm feeling and with me telling my therapist this, I have to make weekly visits to my doctors. I see my therapist on a weekly basis anyway... But I also have to see my Psychiatrist every month.

Because of the situation, with me feeling suicidal, I have been taken of all medication and have to have an injection in my behind every two weeks to help stabilize my mood swings. Because I have OD before, they took me of my meds, but not for definite, just till I stabilize.

But... At least I'm still at home... Granted, with more appointments and more times at seeing my therapist, doctor and Psychiatrist and also I have a CPN (community, psychiatric nurse) which keeps in touch with me on a regular basis as well as a Social Worker.

Sometimes, your life doesn't feel your own but... at the end of the day, these people are there to help you

[karai]

Hi malign and paula,
I've been only to 2 sessions with my psychologist so I don't know what he would do or to what degree of suicide talk he would consider committable. He knows of my sister's suicide with her boyfriend (this happened decades ago) and he knows of my feeling "stuck" in my life for a long time, and he knows my mantra: "life sucks then you die!". Well, knowing all this, do you think any talk of suicide, even though I have never attempted it, would cause him to take action toward hospitalization? I, frankly, am totally terrified to even mention the word. I don't like being confined even though I am not claustrophobic. I think the confinement itself would drive me over the edge!

[paula]

Hi Kari

do you think any talk of suicide, even though I have never attempted it, would cause him to take action toward hospitalization? I, frankly, am totally terrified to even mention the word.

Personally, NO! If your Therapist thinks that you are a danger to yourself or others, then yes!

Just explain to him, your thoughts on the subject!

[malign]

As I said before, I'd feel safe talking to a therapist about thoughts, of anything. But it's okay if you don't. What I would suggest would be to ask him, instead. What would he consider "imminent danger", what would he think of a person who <fill in the blank>. You're still interviewing him, after all.

Then, after you hear the answers, you still get to decide how much, or how little to tell him, and when.

[karai]

Hi malign and Paula,
Therapy is getting more and more difficult by the day and I haven't even really started!!! Well, I guess I gotta ask or all this stuff is never going to get out of my head. Of course every question is going to be in the hypothetical!
Thanks for both of your suggestions and advice. If you don't hear from me for a while, well, you know what happened!! LOL!

[ASchwartz]

Karai and everyone,

Please remember this fact: There is a huge difference between suicidal thoughts and suicidal action. Your psychologists or social workers are trained to know that difference and to ask questions about it and od assessments. Just because you mention suicide does not mean the therapist will put you into the hospital. Actually, no therapist wants to do that. Hospital is a last resort when everyone is convinced beyond as shadow of a doubt that you will hurt yourself.

It is Really Important that all of you be able to talk about what you are thinking and feeling with your therapist. Karai, your therapist is not looking for a reason to hospitalze you and mentioning suicidal thoughts does not equal suicide and he knows that.

However, if you (anyone) has a plan of suicide and method of suicide, is giving their possessions away and suddenly feels very calm because the decision is made, then it is time to enter the hospital where you can be safe and where medications can be adjusted to get you over the worst.

Please try not to fear your therapist and, in fact, discuss you fears with your therapist.

Does this make sense??????

Allan

[karai]

Hi Allan,
I guess what you say makes sense. It's a matter of me convincing myself of this. I will print your reply and stick it in my journal so I can read it everytime I worry about it. Hopefully by the time I go to my next appointment next Friday, there will be no hesitation there of bringing it up.
Thanks for replying; coming from you, this reassures me a lot! I feel a lot better now.
Thanks again.

[karai]

Hello again, Allan,
Reading and re-reading your reply days before my session actually gave me the courage to bring this suicide discussion up w/ my therapist. I feel a whole lot better now that he made it clear what circumstances would "force" him to hospitalize a client. With this out of the way, I think I had the best session yet. There was more interaction on my part and I came out of this 3rd visit feeling very upbeat, instead of in turmoil. Even my first homework assignment on self esteem didn't bother me, well at least not much (simple enough yet difficult to do!). Thanks again!

[ASchwartz]

Hi Karai,

Wow, that is great. Keep us up on how you are doing with therapy and with life.

Allan :)

[karai]

Hi Allan,
So far, therapy: GOOD! Life?: Still SUCKS! Still can't reconcile the two. Is it because I have someone to talk to in therapy, but in the world outside that door, it's the same old $%#@! world? Will keep you apprised of my progress, or lack of?
Thanks.

[confuzzed]

Hey y'all,
Has anyone besides me ever had a therapist refuse to read a note and insist you "verbalize" what's in the note?:confused:
I had this happen to me and as a result I rarely got thru what was on my page because I was too uncomfortable to say some of the things I had written down.
I would have much preferred to let the therapist read the note and then we discuss it....

[karai]

Hi confuzzed,
Not yet, but I was going to try that tomorrow 'cuz the last appt. I had, I couldn't get thro' my list either! I have a list of 6 questions/issues (not detailed) that I wanted to talk about in tomorrow's session and I plan to give my T. a copy of the list to follow along as I went thro' it and also so I won't chicken out of mentioning everything I wanted to say. I intend to do most of the talking so hopefully he won't mind. I will let you know how it goes.

[Mark]

Sometimes the therapist and the patient are coming from two different places of need. The therapist is working hard to help the patient to become more verbally expressive. Not being privy to the internals of the patient's experience, the therapist may not be aware just how difficult, and anxiety provoking it is to be more verbally expressive.

So - here you are working as hard as you can to be more verbally expressive - which for you means using the prop of the letter so that you can verbalize at all - it's a way to manage your anxiety and challenge it at the same time - but I suspect your therapist doesn't understand how difficult it is for you to do even this much and is pushing you to do more - more than you can do right now apparently.

It may be hard for you to do this, but the appropriate thing to do in this situation is to say to the therapist something on the order of, "this is really hard for me - I'm not ready to do what you ask - I need to read from this paper right now".

No therapists are mind readers. However, some therapists are more sensitive than others, and at this moment of his or her life, your particular therapist isn't picking up on your needs and so you need to step up your feedback to him/her - if you can do that. If you need to do that by writing a note, that's okay too.

Mark

[confuzzed]

thanks for your post Mark.
I know in my case the therapist was extremely aware of my problems with verbalizing things. In thinking about it though, I think you hit it just right - my therapist pushed me too hard on this. Most of the time I ended up not saying what I had written and after a while I just quit bringing notes. I see now I shouldn't have done that....:(
I have been able to say more things than I used to though, but again it's been really hard. I think its always been that way for me.
My mom told me the kindergarten teacher quetioned whether I could talk at all as I didn't say a word the whole fall, but after Christmas that year they couldn't shut me up!:rolleyes:

karai - I hope the note thing works OK for you in your session tomorrow - please let us know how it went.

[karai]

Hi confuzzed,
This list thing worked out really great for me! I actually had a very active session with my T. and I even feel I can be more open with him now. I actually started talking about item #1 on my list w/o giving my T. the list first. I guess after 2 weeks since my last session, and some bad nights, I was ready to just start talking. I did give the list to him a few minutes later, though, saying that, if he didn't mind, I made a copy for him to make sure that I would talk about everything I wanted to talk about because the previous session I hesitated and did not do that 'cuz some of the things sounded really lame when talking about it a week later. Anyway, I talked, we discussed, and when I stopped talking, he prompted me on the next item on my list. It worked out great and he even recommended that I do that from now on--write my thoughts down, make a copy for him and we discuss all my issues at the next appointment. I feel really good about this and I hope you can find a way to open up to your T. too, maybe if you told him you would do most of the talking and that the note is for reference only? Hope you find something that works for you. Take care.

[confuzzed]

Hey karai-
That's awesome news that your session went so well!!!:D
And even better that the therapist wants to continue that way.
I'm SOOOO glad you've found a tool that you and your therapist can work together with.
Sounds like it's going to help you in moving the direction you want to go and you'll get more out of your sessions!!
WONDERFUL!!

[karai]

Hi confuzzed,
You seem a bit resentful. I'm sorry. Maybe my session didn't go 100% perfect as I may have described, but I was really relieved and excited that I got to discuss the things that were bothering me, which I never had success doing previously. Maybe I'm reading you wrong. If so, I apologize and am glad that you are happy for me. But, I really do hope you can find a way to comminicate with your T.
Take care and please don't stop trying...

[confuzzed]

Hey karai,
oh no, I didn't mean to sound resentful! Really I didn't.
I TRUELY DO think it's awesome that this worked out for you!!!

[karai]

Hi confuzzed,
Sorry, I didn't mean to pounce. I know I just misconstrued your feelings, and I know I was getting into one of my "funks" again--being late evening and the weekend and such--no excuses. Actually, my moodiness came on a bit early that evening--it kind of surprised me too. So, I apologize, and thank you for being happy for me. :-))

[confuzzed]

No problem!!!:d

[JulianP]

.............

[karai]

Hi JulianP,
Giving a copy of my concerns to my T. works better for me than just reading or referring to my notes. I tend to hesitate and skip over some items and later regret it. And, since my T. is encouraging me to continue making him a copy, I will continue doing that until I guess I find I don't need to. You talk about taking charge of the session--if that was easy for me, I probably wouldn't need therapy! I guess I'm not a "take charge" kind of person, at least not yet not even of my own life!!
Change of subject: Regarding your writing by hand for "child", and typing your thoughts for "adult", that's an interesting concept. It would be interesting to compare the two, if you don't mind sharing! Thanks.

[JulianP]

..........

[ASchwartz]

Hi Everyone,

Writing is an excellent way to deal with things that are on your mind and it is an extremely effective tool to use in therapy. As to whether you write with your monitor or by hand, there is something to be said for either. I think that the answer is whatever works for you. I agree that writing by hand can be extremely helpful for some. Also, it makes sense to have your therapist read what you have written. But, again, that depends on what works for you and your therapist.

Allan

[kb4500]

After meeting my therapist in marriage counseling, I asked if he would see me individually. Schedules prevented that happening for 3 weeks. DUring that time, I wrote out my history and sent it to him. He said it was very helpful and it enabled him to zero in on the most important areas during the first meeting

[smallstar]

Giving notes and such to your therapist is all well and good, if you already have an established relationship with this person. I think it would be very odd to meet someone for the first time and hand them a piece of paper. Like, um okay, thanks for that, that was weird. I could just imagine how awkward that could be. Not even having met the person, yet handing them a piece of paper with your very personal information and concerns. I used to think that I would like to write to the therapist but the more I think about it the less that idea appeals to me. Truthfully, I don't see a way that you can ever just sit down and start talking to someone you don't even know about personal things you are embarrassed of. It hardly seems logical. I wouldn't mind going through therapy if it all could be done in writing, never face to face. It just seems odd that you take someone who already has trouble with anxiety, especially socially, and expect them to just plop down and start talking about themselves. As I see it, that would never happen, it's simply not possible. I want to enter therapy, I don't think I will be able to ever move my life forward without it, yet I feel completely stuck because I'm too afraid to do what I need to do. It doesn't get much more pathetic than that.

[JulianP]

............

[smallstar]

So, if I'm reading correctly, it seems that you're telling me that my only option is basically to get over it? I guess I kind of knew that already, I don't really know what I'm looking for, hoping someone maybe had the magic solution for me? I guess if I'm afraid, I'm going to be afraid no matter what is said to me, so there's no reason to ask, because there is no answer. Now I just need to work on "letting go". Which I have a feeling is most likely much easier said than done. As for judging myself, I am working on that also, I can't seem to control that however, even if I can pick it out, but I try to be realistic about it, and not just tell myself every nasty thing I can think of when I get angry with myself, I guess I think if I scream at myself enough it will erase whatever thing is making me feel bad. Thanks Julian, for your comments, I'm not as sure as you are as to how able I am, but I am trying. Also, do you think you can tell through a phone call if someone is compatible with you or not? I got a bad impression from the woman I called, she did not make me feel comfortable whatsoever.

[malign]

I'm sure no one would say to "just get over it". That trivializes just how hard this clearly is for you. How about, we're telling you that you may have to work through it, despite your own resistance? At least, if you want to change anything.

Everyone has had to do things that seemed hard or even impossible, before they did them. Nothing worth having is easy to get. It's worse with anxiety, which magnifies the real difficulty into something monstrous. But yeah, no magic wands here, otherwise I would've used mine on you long ago. I hate to see you suffer.

But I don't get to choose. All the choices are yours. I'm still betting on you.

[smallstar]

thanks, I am going to try and bet on me too. I think I will figure something out, even if I go about it different than others might, I can usually find a solution if I try hard enough. There, something good for a change!

[JulianP]

............

[smallstar]

Hi Julian, please don't apologize to me, you are very nice to me, I just took what I wanted from what you wrote, no where did you write the words "get over it", that came from my head.

Fun, adventure, love, fulfillment? What is that? I'm only kidding, but it is funny how foreign those ideas seem to me. I would love to have that kind of life, a complete life. I know some people who seem to have these perfect lives, perfectly balanced, seemingly effortless. I feel so far from there, and I am getting too old, making too many mistakes, that that kind of life seems to be getting more out of reach.

I hate when I make it seem I didn't appreciate the time someone took to respond to me, I have a way of always responding in the wrong way, so I'm sorry if you felt bad, I was and am very grateful for your responses.

[JulianP]

..........

[smallstar]

So here's my thing with letting go. I think I can let go to a certain extent, but I need to be very prepared. If I can fully now what to expect than I could try and make a plan. But if I am not able to prepare, because I don't know how to prepare, other than writing something, but I can't see me just handing the dr something I've written. In fact I can see the face he would make in my head, it looks a little something like confusion and "okay, anyway", and than it would just be awkward, and would only get worse when it comes time for me to speak and I am completely inappropriate, once I stumble on a word, that will be it. When I had asked whether or not it was appropriate to write to a therapist, I meant prior to making an appointment, that way I would be able to explain myself before meeting the dr and that would make it easier on me. But then again, that may freak me out, knowing that I had submitted a letter full of my personal thoughts and concerns to this dr, and now I have to meet him. Doesn't matter now though, because I didn't do it, I just sent a very brief email. But as far as letting go, I understand the point, but I think for me that's just a lot to let go of, I've been this way for a very long time, if anything, I think it might get more difficult to let go as more time passes. Do you think it's ever possible that there are just some people who can't let go, even if they want to? Because I really want to, and I keep thinking about all different ways this could play out, and knowing myself and how I react, it never ends well in my head. I try to think, what is the worst thing that can happen if you do go? The worst that can happen is I am completely uncomfortable, make a fool of myself and wind up just hating myself worse than I already do. I just can't see a different possible ending, knowing myself, and to me that's a pretty bad result as to what can happen if I go, so I don't believe I am being irrational or unrealistic about this. I am trying to be honest with myself.

[confuzzed]

Hey smallstar,
you can do it! :)just think positive thoughts. I know that sounds hard, but until you start doing that things aren't going to change.
Don't worry about being uncomfortable, "making a fool out of" yourself, all that. The therapist is there to HELP you. They are not going to do things to make you uncomfortable. I was VERY talking about myself and stumbled with talking when I first started going. The therapist was very kind and patient and helped me learn to talk about things. I think you may find thats the case for you.
Just tell yourself "this is a good thing. I can do this. It's going to be OK."
You can do it!!!!:D

[smallstar]

I hope you're right confuzzed, that the therapist makes me comfortable and helps me learn how to talk about things. Unfortunately however, my brain won't allow me to think positive thoughts, if I do, it always get overridden with a shutup. Thanks for your encouragement.

[confuzzed]

Hey smallstar,
I do that too, but I argue with myself about it....:o
Me, myself and I sometimes have a pretty lively conversation, but we always try to end up playing nice! :)
You should give it a try though.
Hang in there!! :D

[ASchwartz]

Hi Smallstar,

It makes more sense to write notes for your therapist after you feel more comfortable with that person. I agree with you. I would not want to submit all types of personal stuff to someone I have not yet met.

However, what you can do at the first few sessions is come in with a list of things you want to discuss and keep that in front of you and refer to it during the sessions and as you need to.

What do you think??

Allan:)

[smallstar]

I think that I am too self conscious and I can't do it. I don't know what to do anymore, I need to make myself do something. Maybe if I actually get an appointment than I will have more pressure on me than I will have to figure something out. I had an appointment, but I decided I didn't want to keep it, I didn't think I would like the dr I had chose. Now I emailed someone different, but they haven't answered. Who would of known it would be so hard just to find a dr. But I don't trust myself, I will let the afraid part win and I don't know what will happen to me.

[confuzzed]

hey smallstar,
you can do this!:) it's hard, yes, but it will be a good experience!
just do like I do - argue with yourself and make the negative ones "sit down and be quiet". Argue out loud if you want. ;) when I get really negative I do that. (mostly in private so people only continue to think i'm crazy rather than having it confirmed.... :D )

[ASchwartz]

Smallstar,

Clearly, you are extremely nervous about meeting someone new. I would urge you to speak to the therapist on the telephone before making the appointment. Most of us are nervous meeting for the first time. One famous therapist said many years ago that when someone begins therapy both the therapist and the new patient are nervous. Its two nervous people in the office. It's just that the therapist is a little less nervous than the new patient.

A phone call may help reduce your anxiety (reduce, not eliminate). I would not want to see someone after only E. Mail contact. I always want to speak to the person first, whether I am the therapist or the patient.

What do you think?

Allan :)

[karai]

Hey Smallstar,
I think all this nervousness comes from not knowing what is going to happen or who the T is--the fear of the unknown. I know I was ready to run before my first appt. but now, because I know who my T is and what to kind of expect in session, that helps take a lot of the anxiety out of going to therapy (of course now you only have to deal w/ the anxiety of talking about the things that make you anxious, which is a good thing!). Give it a try; if it ends up you don't like your T, then run! Good luck!:D

[smallstar]

Yeah Karai, that's definitely part of it, but not the worse part, fear of the unknown I think I could tolerate, it's fear of what I do know that is holding me back. I was actually thinking about it last night, I can't believe it took until last night to realize that it's actually worse than I had already been thinking, but I just need to think.

[karai]

Hi Smallstar,
I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to make your problem of going to T seem so simple. I just meant that fear of the unknown could be a possibility to consider. I hope you can figure this thing out that is keeping you from going to T. and that you find the answer that you need to get you to go. Good luck and take care.:)