acting out???????????

[roamer2]

why do woman from so many different back grounds act out destructively threw sex? from early teens through even there 50? extreme permissquiss actions with no regard for safe sex.. self acceptance, self esteem, and even self hatred r what has been pointed out.. but no matter the upbringing ... im sure men have done the same im not knocking woman... but they r the massive majority,, what r the dynamics behind this? 50 to 300 random partners starting at 11,12,13... why so extreme in every way?

[roamer2]

im looking for answers to change a pattern of my own.. would appreciate any feedback ty

[finding my way]

Being abused at a young age will cause this behavior. Suffering from a mental illness will cause it. Being raised in an environment of zero sexual boundaries will do it. Extreme neglect will do it. It is addictive behavior and could exist with other addictions. Drugs and alcohol can increase sexual acting out.

Whatever the cause, this person or these persons are not well:(

How are you meeting these women, roamer?

[roamer2]

i dont know thats what im trying to figure out and change.. in person and 1 net experiance.. i seem to be a safe and comforting presence it what im told.. dont have a mean bone in me so i think its the nice guy thing and thats why the finnish last... im just trying to changs and learn

[confuzzed]

maybe you need to review WHERE in person you're meeting these women.
In bars? At movie houses?
probably the environment you're choosing to frequent is where the problem really is.

[ASchwartz]

Hi Roamer2,

I agree, there is something in you that is attracting you to these types of women. But, this is a blind spot and therapy should help you make the blind spot visible so that you no longer gravitate to people who do not satisfy what you really want.

By the way, women are not the majority who do this self destructive type of thing. Men do it too.

Allan

[roamer2]

im not knocking woman.. just trying to change me.. i have met them in many different settings and places.. i have been told that im just a safe comforting caring person.. that i seem to calm the people im around.. i dont want to change those but something needs changed...

[finding my way]

Is there something about them you relate to in your own background? You don't have to discuss it if you don't want to, but were you abused yourself, or neglected?

[ASchwartz]

Hi Roamer2,

There is often a gap between the way people see us and the way we feel inside. So, when women tell you that you are calm and safe, what are you feeling inside of yourself. I would not be surprised to learn that you do not feel inner calm. In fact, even if you say you feel calm, I have my doubts. Anyway, I would like to understand you better as well as the things that bother or trouble you, more than you have so far written, if you can or are willing to??

Allan

[roamer2]

i havent been abused.. my mom was a rape victim before i was born untreated.. i guess i was raised as a protector of woman...or thats how i feel.when i was a teen i was always the 1 protecting the girl that got drunk and would guard her to keep the men from "taking advantage" of the woman.. so learning the things i have lately.. i've felt responsible for taking care of woman in general.. i became violent toward men in my teens.. never violent with woman even when i was in an abusive relationship wouldent even defend myself.. i have taken 5 guys at 1 time but could not even bring my self to push 1 130lb woman away... i always feel very calm around woman comfortable.. no matter if there shy or outgoing.. modest or upper class background.. dosent seem to matter.. they all fit the same pattern... sexually active by 13yrs had been sexually assaulted at some point extremely permiscuious and have a all cheated on me.. so i see the change needs to happen in me... tryed different external things and none work.. i think its a personality thing that attracts them to me and me to them.. i've hurt enough from this patteren it needs to change.................

[roamer2]

its like im used as a safty net

[finding my way]

oh roamer, I'm so sorry to hear those things:(:(. Don't you think this could be your issue right here? Has anyone ever helped you get over the trauma surrounding how you came into the world?? :( Since conception you have been your mother's defender. I can't possibly imagine how you feel about your father, or how you feel about yourself in this situation. You very CLEARLY are a caring, loving person and no rapist. Have you ever healed from your parent's story so you can create your own, based on the person that you truly are, not the trauma concerning them? You don't need to keep unconsciously getting into relationships with women who have been assaulted so that you can prove over and over you are not the kind of man that would do that. You have much more meaning and worth on this planet than that story. It is OK to venture out into who YOU are, though I wonder if anyone has ever supported you in that...:confused:

You are more than your mother's or anyone else's safety net. You are a man and a human being and a decent person. You have a right to pursue a healthy life.

[roamer2]

it was hard to read what you had to say... thank you.. my father wasent the offender.. how do i feel about me???? self deprived from what is reality.... i was always told woman are the victims always.. and it was the men that were out to get them... i have at points been ashamed of being a man... and have unknowingly put my self into a posision to be a victim.. in order not to be like all the rest of the "bad " men i made many choices that have kept me from learning a lot about my self.... in order to not be like everyone else.... everything that has happened in my life has been dictated by my overly abundant and sick moral standards... how do i change is the question....

[finding my way]

That is a lot to untangle, roamer, but it can be done. It'd be easier if you had the support of a good therapist. In any case, you can keep writing here if you like. You just need lots more experiences exploring yourself apart from these patterns, in an environment that welcomes that. It could be talking, it could be doing, like pursuing hobbies or activities to find out the things you like to do and who you are while you are doing them.

[JulianP]

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[roamer2]

i cant tell you how much i appreciate what you wrote....
i see progress because i have a good relationship with my dad now and have 3 genuine male and 2 female friends.. its been painful to write about my issues but im at a place in my life that i dont want them any more.. they were killing me slowly.. the fear of change is at most times far less than the pain of my old ways... you opened my eyes to a lot... the dynamics of the flaws in my presonality have been the question... im learning thanks to theropy and this site... all info is welcome from anyone also..

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

thanks again i dident expect a seemingly simple question to go so deep... the level of sacrifice has been staggering... the term eternal marter plagues me.. it has defined my relationships with woman to this point.. i still find im all to ready to sacrafice.. 50/50 is what i want but want to give more also.. im struggling with this mind set in many ways.. im afraid of spoiling her but tend to then analize it after and it upsets me that i subconsciously do it... im afraid of a repete with this woman even tho shes not them or my mom.. its still a huge fear.. what can u do to recognize the these things sooner?????????????????
should i continue to spoil her a bit??????????
how do i seperate my past fears and pain from this????????????
guess i have a long way to go...

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

it makes seance.. to answer your questions.. its fear of over doing things.. spoiling and sacrificing on my part and being in a 1 sided relationship.. that is part of my pattern.. in so many ways this girl fits the profile of the pattern but there are some major differences tho. in general i freaked when i learned the common things she has with the others and yes even my mom.. i noticed the differences and honestly thats what kept me around... i was ready to run break things off and set a wall in place... 1 major difference is the communication.. she also has been in therapy for a long time.. the demons of the past surface in certain situations for me... she hasent earned my baggage.. so we talk things out... her issues and mine.. THATS REALLY DIFFERENT!! im just scared of being hurt again. i analize if i can do this relationship as well as my motives... if thing do continue to work and improve then at some point i know i will relax.. if they go south im out instantly... i spoil her threw affection attention attentiveness gestures of appreciation because that is me and i really want to.. not in materials but in intimacy. lol she says i have completely spoiled her sexually to...

that scared me as far as over diong things.. she also says i meet all her needs... that scares me.... i dont want to try to be everything because anyone will fail at that.. maybe i dont need a relationship at this point.. she is a good woman and i do deeply care for her.. but how do i not live in fear of the pattern repeating? :confused:

[finding my way]

Hey roamer, I hope you don't mind my 2 cents here. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like your behavior toward your girlfriend is out of line. Like JP says, you may just really need support to "retool" how you relate to you. You don't have to be completely alone to achieve that, though you will need to take time for yourself to work on it. You are aware now. That is what stops the pattern from repeating! It's being unconscious of the whole thing that is dangerous. You are bound to go through some confusing times trying to reorient to a new identity for you. That is OK. Your girlfriend might be a good source of support if you can reach a comfort zone with that idea.:o

[roamer2]

your 2 cents are always apriciated.. thank you... so its deffinatly my identity that needs work? that is scary but im willing...

[finding my way]

What you identify yourself to be. You've already put in the crowbar, now you are moving to claim the you you want to be. It's scary good, not scary bad:p. I know it must feel disorienting to be in a state of change. You might even reach a point when you feel like celebrating, believe it or not...:o

[roamer2]

so your saying im finding my way? i hope your right... the relationship im in now is different in that we are so open and willing to talk about anything.. we actualy work together.. (i thought that was a fairy tale lol) but it appeasr to be us and thats nice.. again scary and different but nice..

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

im searching for myself.. i know i have made progress... that seems over shadowed by the things comming out in this current relationship.... we cant see each other because her son and his stepdad are throwing a fit because we met on the internet... her son is 20 but is still being tended to like a 10 year old... he has a issue with us and his tantrums STOP EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! every time... part of me wants to continue to be patient and let the poor woman chase the tale of the dragon.. the other part says BULLSHIT!!!! if im not on the priority list then the patteren matches.. she either wants this or she dont period!!!! im worth more than that.. im worth an effert on someone elses part... that is the part of the simmilar patteren i have refered to.... i feel like i will remain just an option to her and if that is the case i will not live like that i will walk......................

[JulianP]

............deleted

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

what im intitled to or deserve is a mood point..... if im not a priority by now.. i never will be.... there is a difference between sacrafice and martyerism.. i have told my own kids that they do not have the right to treat anyone like that let alone there parrent or someone they claim to love.... if her 20 year old son has a problem then thats on him.. he has no right to treat anyone like that... you either love some one or you dont........ you either want someone or you dont period.... yes im angry... i dont like being an "OPTION"... that is how it has been every time and always ends the same way..... you can either live with it or you cant............ i cant live with the dicktatership of others that have no business in the situation in the first place... i will not pay the price for her indecision.. or there need to controle.. because it is simple controle is what this is all about and there is no love in controle period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! she doesent have to deside between me or him i support all the relationships between family... he wants her to do just that.. me or him type deal.... i lose even tho im not playing.. i pay for the raw stupididy of the situation like i always have.. with a broken heart........

[roamer2]

i cant change him or her and dont intend to..... i can only take care of me.. i may sound demanding but im not.. i am to the end of pointless sacrafice on my part.... i make them she dont.. thats no 50/50 deal.. thats a 1 sided patteren.. the patteren i need to escape... i could be wrong.. i will admit it willingly if i am.. but i'd rather be happy than right or wrong... people are both right and wrong.. that really dont matter and its not a high standart to just want loved back... everything was good even when the first cancelations came.. i understood not a big deal.. take care of you and we will see each other another time... enough is enough tho another 2 months of limited contact over an inmature selfish tantrum is unacceptable.. i wont leave me out of it because me is a part of us and that is what this is really about... US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im so angry at me because i feel like i let it happen again... i repeted the same old same old..

[roamer2]

there is no working together on this subject for her.. thats her baby and thats final

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

she says shes not willing to give me up but needs time to make sure things are good between her son and her... i said that if we are gona be together then we do this together along with anything else that comes up... its about us if there is an "us" .. and that when he realizes he has stoped your life it will hurt him severly.... he wont like to know he hurt you like that and you wont like knowing how bad it hurt him... she says im not an option but putting me on hold for these issues makes it otherwise.. it means there is no us and becomes the 1 sided patteren all over again.. i told her i wont live like that and she said i shouldent have to.. shes just emotionaly torn and dont know why...


so im asking everyone here.. do i wait? and if so how long? or do i just walk now? please help!!!!!

[roamer2]

i need to know if im over sensitive and acting on personality dissorders or being to demanding or am i following old behaviors?

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

jp thank you.. im severly depressed and bi polar in theropy but am limited on treatment for various reasons... i in no way want to even suggest a decision like that and tell her daily that i would never ask for that.... i do tell her she can have both.... im not the 1 looking for that decision i ts like i loose when im not even playing so to speek.... i have no intress winning and looseing.. i just want to be happy... its up to her i weather im drug into this decision that i dont even want i wont perticipate because it is wrong to put any human being in that posision let alone someone you claim to love.... my thing is there has to be "US" for it to work and as long as this behavior continues there can be no "US" so what am i holding onto if anything or am i overreacting being to patient not patient enough????? if this is all it takes to ignore my feelings and shut the "US" out then does she really love me? when my mood is high i think RUN......... when low i think hold on... the meadium seems to be out of reach...:confused:

[roamer2]

realized the pattern link:( "if you let her go and she returns to you then it was ment to be" i cant go on like this ant thats the only visible option

[JulianP]

............deleted

[roamer2]

i ended it................................... if she wants me she will do more than say it she will show it................................ if not.... so be it........... i will just find sex and be done with it like most of the population.... im done with the illusion and myth of "love"

[finding my way]

roamer, you have been through an awful lot in a short amount of time.:( I'm sorry things are so challenging. It probably sounds trite right now, but love comes from inside you and is there regardless of the behavior of others, though bad relationships can really erode that connection. How are you doing with you? Can you take a break from this outer drama and get back to center, where love is?:o

[roamer2]

im not doing very well with me because i see this patteren as something im doing" wrong and i want to change it so bad.. untill im sure there has been a change there then there is NO chance at love.. i just dont know where to start... whats my part? what am i doing? i set strict bounreries with her which is different but i still want it to work and am finding that im over willing to sacrafice me needs to make that happen.. which frankly pisses me off... i dont think i let go in bad situations that my loyalty is more mayrteristic than loving but im not sure if that is the case im searching... and if she does come around i will be right there for her but wanting her to show "practice" what she preaches.. that makes me feel to demanding.. but its different.. guess it dont matter to anyone if im wrong.. just me and when the heart is involved i dont want to be disasteriously wrong.. i dont think i can live with more of that.............................................. ........ im so angry at me to the point of hatrid... for the first time in my life i cut my legs because i cant handle how much i despise myself.... it dident help... i need relief from this... i cant go on hating me..... what needs to change?

[finding my way]

roamer, are you seeing a therapist currently? You really need to take special care with you. Right here, right what you are saying, you hate you, THAT is your work right now. How can you possibly get to love when that is what you are feeling? You need to tell your therapist that is what is going through your head.

[roamer2]

im angry at me because im still just a meal ticket to my family and an option to her.. some how i allow it and im tired of it

[finding my way]

What do you need, just from you, not from anyone else, for you to love, or even just like, you? I am so sorry no one has helped you with that in the past. It's time to get there now, if you can, even if it takes a little while, and other people have to wait a bit.

[roamer2]

i need 2 disks im my back fixed.. a fused hip fixed wisdom teeth pulled the opening from my splne to my brain fixed and then to finish collage and get back to work worked hard from age 11 to 33 but i distroyed my body to be a meal ticket for many people,,, this time its for me.... i need these fixed but that dosent mean that i should sware off intamacy or other things im capable of for the next 3 years... when im single its not as big a deal but i also realize i need to explore like intamacy all the things i denied myself because of my up bringing...... but the empty spot next to me hurts at the moment most... a meaningful relationship is prefered but a few.. hi.. thank you .. get out.. will work also.. no love involved has worked all 3 times out of the 8 so that sounds like the best bet.... just another way to explore me and not deal with the ILLUSION of love

[finding my way]

I predict a backlash, roamer, if you do that. Of course I can't tell you what to do, but I wouldn't advise you to do it. It is too close to the identity you've spent your life avoiding. There are many, many other things to do with you and many many other facets of you to explore. PLEASE take care of yourself right now, and see your therapist if you can:(:(

[roamer2]

i surrender.. i've had enough.. what happens is whats gona happen.. the only thing i can change is me.......... i thought i had been and freaked when something felt fammiliar i want different in every aspect of my life... when i thought i slipped back into the old i just wanted out.... i tried something different it felt the same... so i tried to run.... i just dont know what i can do to not feel that way... and i know that the way i feel is on me.. i allow few people into my heart maybe thats the problem... idk

[roamer2]

I never realized a few questions about sex and patterns could go so deep into everything else.. i havent seen my therapist for 3 weeks now due to my health issues... things have just really sucked so bad in every possible way.. not just the relationship but every other aspect of my life... everything hit at once... i still can hardly get up from the psychical pain let alone the emotional and mental pain.. no matter what i do what direction i take these problems are only getting worse... absolutely nothing i do has a positive effect on all these issues.. i lashed out like a crazy person on here... that is not me to do those things and i can tell you there will be no more cutting... no relief just pain and im sick of that.... i have very little choice in the way things are... i dident lash out at her but as far as i can tell we are done... she planned to do the exact same thing all the rest of them did... go back to her ex.... the only difference is that she told me that she had feelings for him that she dident know about.. and needed to sort them out and she may try again with him... she told me before she did it.. thats the difference but its the same because she wants an abusive dependent relationship like all the rest of them did... lol she just told me first... whooopiiii!!!!!! still the same result...:(

[finding my way]

Roamer this is so not a time to stop seeing your therapist! I hope you can go soon. Look at all that has happened this past 3 weeks!!:( You need to feel better. The better I'm talking about cannot happen with alcohol, sex, or drugs. This pattern of relationships can change around, but you need to work with you for a while first, and with your therapist. I'm so sorry things are so tough right now:(:(

[roamer2]

its not going to well.. had feelings deeply for her. her kid and ex are what ended it.. we did connect on every level like no other i have seen.. its hard especialy on top of everything else. i wasent looking for anything not even sex when we met and resisted a relationship for over a month after she mentioned it.. i just seemed to happen naturally.. we did everything right by what her therapist said and the numerous books and date/relationship sites said.. her therapist said that our relationship was the healthiest and best relationship she had had in her 20 some years of therapy that it would be unwise to leave ours and return to the old where she was happy enough to abuse pills and attempt suicide. our relationship was unbelievable up until her kid and ex got involved. then it went down hill. we dont talk at all and havent for almost 2 weeks. i think she did go back to her verbaly abusive ex for the sake of her 19 yr old kid. both her ex and sons relationships with her are extremely sick completely dependant on her sons wants and feelings. at the same time cant stand her ex and the way he treats her. guess just like all the others in my past a healthy relationship is undesirable being treated like a human let alone being treated good just dont work for them. i dont get why so many woman seem to crave abuse, controle, belittlement, men that r emotionally unavaliable, and men that show on a daily basis that they dont even care enough to take them to the hospital .. hwat is wrong with these woman????????????????????????????

[finding my way]

roamer, that sounds sooooooooo painful :(. Sometimes it seems relationships are about what we need to work on, and less about the ideal. You have been through so much. Can you see that one piece for you is learning how to take care of you? I'm not sure anyone has helped you with that, and it doesn't appear that anyone has been a good model for that in your life. It is not a selfish thing, it is essential. I hope you get to a library computer and update us on how you are doing....

[roamer2]

im not sure if i follow you?? i have some net access.. the ideal? and learning? please point out what ever you see.. anything because i will look at it if i know what im looking for.. as always thank you for all your help and support..

[finding my way]

Sorry roamer if I was being obscure. I was responding to your confusion about these women returning to bad relationships when you were offering something much healthier. There's a lesson in their story and in yours that might be similiar.

If you haven't been able to get to the core of yourself and listen in silence and know what your true needs are and be willing to stand with yourself in your need and not turn away in shame, even if it means standing with a very young needy part of you, if you haven't been able to do that,

you will seek out being with someone who treats you more like you are treating yourself.... someone who turns away from your needy stuff, and worse, someone who acts hateful toward you.... it's a match!!

You've probably heard the saying you can't love others if you can't love yourself. Well this is the dynamic. These women can't tolerate someone who's nicer to them than they are being to themselves. These women are saying some pretty harsh things to themselves on the inside.

Now, are you doing that too?

Most people here are really struggling with this. We turn away from ourselves in shame and hatred because we are in pain. And then we are a soul divided.

Soooo,,,,, our relationships match that dynamic, instead of being about the ideal (loving and supportive and fun).

This is just how I see it, don't think I'm some sort of expert.

How are you doing with you these days? You have been through so much. Are you able to be easy on you a bit, with all this pain?

[roamer2]

wow! that matches my history of relationships. except for the last 1.. she actualy did treat me good all the way to the end of it.. she really dosent think she deserves to be happy because of her relationship with her son.. in that sence she a marter. she does fit the patteren in the way that she returned to the safe comfort of her missery. it made her miserable because her heart was torn between me and her son so she ran to that comfoft. security in pain because she thinks thats what she deserves. for a wile we matched perfictly tho. 50/50 on every thing including emotions and inner needs. we brought out those needs in each other and even mutualy met those needs. thats what makes this 1 so tough to grieve.. everything worked except that 1 thing and that was enough.. i love me enough to know that i deserve what i give..

not much relief on the pain yet still in the works.. but some things are better tho.

i want to thank you for all your help.. it make a huge difference..

[finding my way]

I'm glad you love you roamer :). That is an amazing accomplishment when things are so very tough. If you can continue to stand by you and not turn away, you will keep healing. I hope you get to have some company soon, I wish that for us all. You always have us.:o