pondering

[danni]

Hello all...

I was wondering if I can get some opinions for anyone who would care to share.

I'm an abuse survivor. I didn't tell anyone and buried the events and the feelings around it for lots of years. Lately, flashbacks have been sneaking out and through encouragement from some of you here, I've decided it's time to try to deal with it rather than ignore it. (not ready for the therapy step yet but considering it.)

but....I've been thinking a lot about the beliefs I have about myself because of what happened long ago. Particularily things like, "why wasn't I worth protecting?" and "What was it about me that wasn't loveable enough for anyone to care?"

Now...as an adult, I'm striving to achieve things that are unattainable. If I'm not working incredibly hard, giving 110%, at warp speeds, I feel I'm not doing enough. But....in my world there isn't an "enough." I'm trying to prove something to somebody but I know not what or to whom.

So.....what I'm wondering is how can worth as a human being be defined??? How does one decide, know, or feel valuable or internalize it????


Any ideas?????

[GingerSnap]

What works for me is that I try to help others. To me I want to have done something positive with the time I have on earth. Sometimes it is very small like spending a few minutes talking with someone I know is lonely and letting them pet my dog, going out to the day center for people developmental disabilities and visiting and/or taking something special to the clients there, maybe a cause like getting an animal shelter built, just grabbing a door for someone or helping someone carry something and getting a smile - these things really help me because my son with DS takes so much and gives back not a lot but not his fault of course and my husband is consumed with self-love (no room for anyone else) so all these little things I do bring me great reward - sharing what I do have to give that is good I guess - pay it forward - following the Golden Rule. When you show up and are greeted with a sincere smile as in they are so happy to see you, well, that just warms the heart.

[finding my way]

:( danni, David, Gingersnap, these things hurt so much. :(

It could be my typology (INTP), but I shift over to thinking how incredibly fractured, split, depraved, empty, the perpetrator must be to be able to do those things, and how extreme their damage must be. That is the ONLY way for me to be able to deal with those people, and it helps to shift the judgement away from me. HOWEVER, that alone will not heal what didn't get to develop within because of these events. And that is what still leaves us so vulnerable and so needy. We require good experiences in interactions. We require having someone in our life that loves us. Those needs can be met and are met everyday in friendships. I hope you find friendship here, and I hope from here you find friendships where you are. When that happens, being vulnerable and needy is no longer a bad thing at all.

[goose]

Danni and David

I cannot even imagine the torment you have both been through.

David you are an amazing person to have survived this and to have removed yourself from that situation. To have achieved significant education qualification despite your past, to being willing to share your expertise with others, this act alone shows you do have the compassion that you feel in missing in your posts.

Take care

Goose

[finding my way]

Take it easy with you, David :(. You have nothing to apologize for. It makes every bit of sense that this would be difficult :(

[danni]

Oh David.... My heart hurts for you but I also have a huge admiration for your resilience, drive and hard work to achieve, succeed and be of service to others. I've been reading your posts on this forum and your concern and gentle, thoughtful advice is a testament to the person you've become. I am in awe!!!!!



Thank you all for your support and comments. It's a lot to think about and digest. It helps more than I can say. Because I kept this secret for so long, I've felt very alone with all my dark feelings and demons.

I think the abandonment by those who were supposed to care is just as hard to deal with as the rapes and abuse. I tried to tell my parents at one point and got the beating of my life for it. I never spoke of it again until now. They backed out of my life at that point. They reminded me often that I was a mistake and that they only wanted one child...(my older brother who was also one of my abusers.) How can one feel valuable and have a sense of worth when the people who are supposed to love you more than anything else in the world call you a mistake???? That really hurts!!!!!

The dumb thing is that I've accomplished a lot with my life.... I have a masters degree. I've just been promoted to a director at my place of employment. I lived oversees developing programs for orphans which was a very magical experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.....Yet.....I feel empty. I work really hard to make others feel better or more hopeful about their lives because I can see the worth in them. Yet.... I don't have hope for my own life at this point.


Again....thank you all for listening and providing some much needed support about this stuff that I've felt for the first time in my life!!!!

[David O]

Oh David.... My heart hurts for you but I also have a huge admiration for your resilience, drive and hard work to achieve, succeed and be of service to others. I've been reading your posts on this forum and your concern and gentle, thoughtful advice is a testament to the person you've become. I am in awe!!!!!
Danni and David

I cannot even imagine the torment you have both been through.

David you are an amazing person to have survived this and to have removed yourself from that situation. To have achieved significant education qualification despite your past, to being willing to share your expertise with others, this act alone shows you do have the compassion that you feel in missing in your posts.

Take care

Goose

Take it easy with you, David :(. You have nothing to apologize for. It makes every bit of sense that this would be difficult :(

Danni, finding my way, Goose,

I tried today to talk about what hasn't really ever been hidden, but what remains difficult to talk about on occasion. I wanted to write on this thread, from the heart, about life under an extremely brutal dictatorship. I wanted to write about life as a migrant worker in the US, about what it meant for years to be a 2nd class citizen, about being an abandoned child in a world full of famine, civil unrest and severe poverty, and finally, about those feelings of worthlessness that come with all of these experiences. I wanted to write these things because I somehow needed to unbandage my wounds to feel and understand yours. But, I couldn't get past part 2 before I felt overwhelmed and finally pulled away.

9 years of excellent therapy can't erase or dry clean away the memories, the smells, sounds, sights and feelings. It is as if every cell has a memory of it's own!

You guys, plus others like malign, mscat and a few more, have been and are a blessing to me. Your courage is remarkable, your compassion w/o measure and your wisdom is w/o equal.

Thanks so much for who and what you are. I wanted to be of help, to listen and learn and to share my "knowledge": I ended up being the student of life along the way, each of you has taught me something and I am a better person from it.

David O.

[finding my way]

Those traumatized parts need special care. :(There will be times when it is too difficult to hold ourselves together in the face of such dark feelings. I'm no expert, but if you can stay extra generous and patient with yourself in those times and not try to overthink or conclude or solve, just stay with yourself patiently, maybe a little something inside can knit together again:(

[malign]

David,

One part of me is sad that I missed knowing what you had to delete.
Another part knows all it needs to, just from the fact of deletion.

Some things are just too hard to share. If you're lucky, it gets easier and you get that chance at a later time. This ties intimately into what you wrote under your "Old dog" thread. I think some professionals who visit the site tend to fall into their accustomed role as clinician. But in my opinion, that just masks whatever need it was that brought them here. After all, the role of clinician is available at the "office", if that's the need.

My suggestion is that most of us here benefit from switching roles back and forth between helper and helpee, as often as necessary, and maybe, as often as possible. It "grows" you, and grows on you.

I think you've often given very good advice to people, from a direction that most of us here can't give (that's the beauty of this place, we all have such a direction; it's our own perspective.) That doesn't preclude you from getting help, as well, and in your own time. We're all here pulling for you, regardless of how much you are able to share.

I'm sorry, not for the facts that are missing, but for the hurt that's very apparent.

[David O]

Finding my way, malign,

Thank you both for your compassion and understanding. My posts left me far too naked.

For years now, I've wanted to write a book for myself and for my children. I would start in my head and just as I got to the stories, I stopped-- my head can do it, my heart is incapable. My therapists (there have been several) all thought it was a good idea for healing. But it never healed, it only tore away at the scar tissue. Since the 1980's, there has been a growing body of literature regarding repeated trauma and neural development-- maybe this is where this lies, in a place where it can't be rinsed away so easily or where emotional reactions to it are less easily managed thru treatment.

There was a day when the soldiers instigated a fight between myself and a smaller and younger boy. I ended up on top- a soldier gave me a stone the size of a little league ball and strongly directed that I hit the little boy in the head with it until I killed him, or else. I remember nothing more-- did I hit him or not? Where did he go since I never saw him again? It seems some things are better left untouched- and those hundreds of experiences are likely in this category.

I've never really just asked for help... never sought to have others see inside of me at this depth... it was and is frightening... and yet, here I am, on this forum, exposing myself to people I've never met or seen. We're all doing it, and so many are healing in this process. For me, this is unfinished business-- the parts I couldn't easily touch in therapy w/o crumbling or dissociating to some extent. I was eventually diagnosed with very severe PTSD!

I now need to stop. I'll leave this alone and hope I can stop the urge to again delete.

[malign]

David,

You do what you have to do. We all do.
We're here for you regardless.

[David O]

....I've been thinking a lot about the beliefs I have about myself because of what happened long ago. Particularily things like, "why wasn't I worth protecting?" and "What was it about me that wasn't loveable enough for anyone to care?"

Now...as an adult, I'm striving to achieve things that are unattainable. If I'm not working incredibly hard, giving 110%, at warp speeds, I feel I'm not doing enough. But....in my world there isn't an "enough." I'm trying to prove something to somebody but I know not what or to whom.

So.....what I'm wondering is how can worth as a human being be defined??? How does one decide, know, or feel valuable or internalize it????


Any ideas?????

Danni,
I'm so sorry for hijacking your thread the past 2 days.

I've struggled with this for decades-- these feelings of being less than others, not valued, at times even worthless and insignificant. From here arose a second set of feelings, those of vacancy and emptiness. It wasn't until my children were born that some of this subsided. I also was driven by anger and resentment (which were byproducts of my emotional turmoils), so driven that I decided to finish high school, go to college and 13 years later, finish a PhD in psych. So there I was, a non-English speaking, poverty defined, Hispanic with a decision compelled by anger to get an education so that I could stop feeling like a failure and as subhuman.

The interesting this was that it wasn't therapy or self talk that allowed me to overcome most (not all) feelings of worthlessness, it was experiencing success in school, then at work, then in my personal life. Anger drove me. but the experience of being responsible and successful provided the most relief.

I'm not sure one can easily talk oneself into feeling good about themselves when their very being has been devalued as ours has been. It seems you've already assumed affirmative and assertive stance that provides a successful life as one defines it. For some people, changes in thinking lead to changes in life... for others, changes in behavior can lead to changes in thinking. I couldn't think my way into feeling good about myself: I could behave my way into thinking better about myself tho.

For you, it could be the opposite. have you considered getting the book: Mind over Mood (2 short volumes and 1 is a workbook), which you can get used at Amazon for <$15, or the New Mood Therapy by Dr. David Burns (also at Amazon used for <$15). Go through the exercises carefully. Also, consider The Alchemist, written by Brazilian writer Paulo Coehlo-- a simple book but it might speak to you. And finally there's The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.

I hope this helps. good luck,
David

[danni]

Thanks for the reply, David.....

Your story is inspiring!!! It makes me think that what I went through was really not that big a deal. I know that many people have gone through much worse than me so why am I having such a hard time with this. I survived. I've been successful. I just got promoted to a director at my place of employment. But....it's not enough.

I sucked it up and saw a therapist today. It was brutal. Don't get me wrong. He was awesome. Very kind and gentle. I just couldn't talk about it. Tonight I've been in tears and my body has been shaking.

I don't know if this is worth it. I've got the means to let go here tonight. I guess I've got some decisions to make.

Again.....thank you for talking to me!! I say again that you are an inspiration to every life you touch on these boards!!! Thank you for that!!

[finding my way]

Dear danni, congratulations on seeing the therapist. These things are extremely difficult, and sometimes it goes a little step at a time. You need to give yourself credit!!! I know David would not want you to compare experiences, that would make him feel bad. Your experiences were awful, and you need to take care with that. Your shaking body needs your care. If we can stand with ourselves in our need and not run away, we will have learned one of THE most important lessons in therapy. Keep us posted danni.:o

[finding my way]

:( Hi David! I was searching through your posts for one where you had recommended some books (still can't find that one) and I found this one!! I never saw this post and I don't know why:confused: It really bugs me that this can happen.:(

I want to offer you this. Your oppressors made sure you could not possibly win in that situation; that is the depth of their cruelty and their depravity. My guess is that is the depth of the cruelty that they themselves experienced, and gave up before. They HAD to become the perpetrators, they could not tolerate being the victim. Who could? Our nervous systems, our human souls, cannot tolerate such cruelty. We split off, dissassociate, shut down, get high, go insane, or go on the attack ourselves.

In that place inside you with the memory of what actually happened, I want to leave a flower. It is my offering. You cannot change whatever it was that happened, but you can honor the spirits of those that were so tortured, and really it was everyone there, despite the roles they played. I honor the little boy in all of you. His spirit as the universal boy can live on, and be strengthened by our well wishes, and by our choosing not to be opressors, as best as we can.

There are places so hurt inside that I cannot approach and remain whole. I just cannot do it. If I could, I would be speaking to my parents again. It is in these areas that those that love me hold me together instead. Please don't expect too much from yourself. We are human. David we are your friends and we hold you for you in this painful place.:(

[finding my way]

This is so freaky!!!!:) The tears are streaming. Here is the post I was looking for, on this page. I had looked at this page a while back and missed the page before where you had posted. If I hadn't done a "search" I would never have seen any of this.

[Autumn Rain]

Wow, finding my way that's a very heartfelt post you wrote.
I'm so touched by your words....you conveyed what we all felt but difficult to put into words. Honoring the unchangeable past is a bittersweet idea, I often looked back at my past and feel a mix of disbelief how come it can be that messed up, and also thousand others feeling I can't convey through words

Danni, I hope you're doing fine now wherever you are. When I read your post I feel like seeing myself in that position. Your questions about self-worth and all....I've been there too. It makes me wonder if we're all looking at others for affirmation that we're worth of love, yet everyone just can't give it because everyone is also waiting that affirmation from each other. Sounds like roundabout way, yes.
I know that as survivor you shouldn't let yourself be dragged to that past, yet there are times when you're weakened and then you find yourself transported to that time, and you find yourself re-living that nightmare....I wonder if this can be classified as trauma? Sounds like that for me. So we have to deal it the way we deal with any kind of trauma right?
Nevertheless, there are also days when I feel better and feel strong, and can think that I don't care how others see my worth. Yet as social creature, maybe it's only natural for us to crave others' affirmation...

[danni]

David....I hope I didn't make you feel bad as Finding My Way thinks I may have. That was not my intention at all and I am sincerely sorry if I came off that way!!!!! I was really trying to give myself a little perspective that I may be blowing my own stuff way out of proportion and convince myself to toughen up. My deepest apologies!!!!!!

And to everyone else....I really appreciate your support through all my confusion!! It does help to calm my spirt, if only for awhile, to come here and see that there are others who understand.

I am still really struggeling though.....

How does one define worth when a lifetime has been spent accepting
that there is none??? I’ve secretly hoped that there was some
but, somewhere along the line, I guess I stopped looking.

But.....I am able to see that there are people and events going on
around me that I can attach worth to. But what I keep coming back
to is that all of that is meaningless if I can’t feel worth within
myself.


I have plenty of external sources that say I have worth. Like.....
- My job: the CEO trusted me enough to ask me to assume the
director position. Why would she do that if I wasn’t accomplishing
something at some level there?

- My Russian “family“: this was the first time in my life
I’ve ever felt unconditional love. And yet, despite this, I still didn't allow myself to trust them. Also, my work there seemed so
worthwhile even though the “failures” outnumbered the “successes”
by A LOT!!

- My friends here: I have an awesome friendship circle here
who are like family to me. My goddaughter thinks I walk on water.
[I think she does too. :)] But, yet, I still keep them at arms length.


And what are the sources that say I don’t???? 3 guys with a
propensity for rape and 2 parents who thought I was a mistake and
chose to protect my rapists rather than me and allowed it to continue for so many years.

The first list is so much longer [and is actually in the present!]
I don’t understand how the violence and abandonment has such power
over me because, cognitively, I know what I'm supposed to be thinking and how I am supposed to approach it. And I guess I have to admit that it has always affected how I saw myself and how I lived my life. Even though I thought I’d buried it and kept telling myself that it didn’t matter, I think
it has affected many aspects of my life. I’ve spent a lot of
energy trying to escape it!!! It hurts so much to admit that the basis
of my worth was created by something that happened so long ago and
I've been unable to let go of it.

I guess I'm just venting now but I feel very "raw" emotionally. I'm really having a tough time.....

Thanks for listening :)

[David O]

David,
You do what you have to do. We all do.
We're here for you regardless.
Thank you so much for respecting and honoring this.
Thanks for the reply, David..... Your story is inspiring!!! It makes me think that what I went through was really not that big a deal. I know that many people have gone through much worse than me so why am I having such a hard time with this. I survived. I've been successful. I just got promoted to a director at my place of employment. But....it's not enough. Danni- what you experienced is just as real and painful as what I did. There truly is no way to compare what everyone goes thru. In the end we are all wounded in some way or another, we struggle in life and in the final analysis, I believe that we all have a need to belong, feel/believe we are valued, and feel connected. This is the only true comparison since it speaks to our core as humans.

:( Hi David! … I want to offer you this. Your oppressors made sure you could not possibly win in that situation; that is the depth of their cruelty and their depravity... In that place inside you with the memory of what actually happened, I want to leave a flower. It is my offering. You cannot change whatever it was that happened, but you can honor the spirits of those that were so tortured, and really it was everyone there, despite the roles they played. I honor the little boy in all of you. His spirit as the universal boy can live on, and be strengthened by our well wishes, and by our choosing not to be opressors, as best as we can.

There are places so hurt inside that I cannot approach and remain whole. I just cannot do it. If I could, I would be speaking to my parents again. It is in these areas that those that love me hold me together instead. :( Corita Kent once said “Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed.” Elie Wiesel also stated that, “ I have learned two lessons in my life: first, there are no sufficient literary, psychological, or historical answers to human tragedy, only moral ones. Second, just as despair can come to one another only from other human beings, hope, too, can be given to one only by other human beings.” You words are both encouraging and hopeful—thank you for this.

David....I hope I didn't make you feel bad…. That was not my intention at all and I am sincerely sorry if I came off that way!!!!! I was really trying to give myself a little perspective that I may be blowing my own stuff way out of proportion and convince myself to toughen up. My deepest apologies!!!!!! There is no need to apologize, I didn’t interpret it this way and saw you as trying to create a compassionate bridge between us. Deep, unspeakable pains and suffering, I think, are like a rebirth or baptism of sorts- we always come out at the other end, changed and reborn. For some, the rebirth and baptism is life changing and expansive, for others it is like a congenital disorder that is life limiting, constricting and narrowing.

[malign]

For some, the rebirth and baptism is life changing and expansive, for others it is like a congenital disorder that is life limiting, constricting and narrowing.

And the coolest thing, I think, is that we get to choose which, moment by moment.

As I said before, we're behind you either way.

[David O]

How does one define worth when a lifetime has been spent accepting
that there is none??? I’ve secretly hoped that there was some but, somewhere along the line, I guess I stopped looking…. And what are the sources that say I don’t???? 3 guys with a
propensity for rape and 2 parents who thought I was a mistake and
chose to protect my rapists rather than me and allowed it to continue for so many years.

The first list is so much longer [and is actually in the present!]
I don’t understand how the violence and abandonment has such power
over me because, cognitively, I know what I'm supposed to be thinking and how I am supposed to appriach it. And I guess I have to admit that it has always affected how I saw myself and how I lived my life. Even though I thought I’d buried it and kept telling myself that it didn’t matter, I think it has affected many aspects of my life. I’ve spent a lot of
energy trying to escape it!!! It hurts so much to admit that the basis of my worth was created by something that happened so long ago and I've been unable to let go of it.

I guess I'm just venting now but I feel very "raw" emotionally. I'm really having a tough time.....

Thanks for listening :)

Danni, it just seems than many of us will remain pilgrims all of our lives, never truly coming to peace with ourselves. We will always be in recovery (and I would personally never have it any other way), drawing on these experiences to make us that much more human.

There’s an ancient Hasidic tale wherein pilgrims vied for the position of “who here has suffered the most?” and, “who is most entitled to complain?” The Zaddick told them the story of the Sorrow Tree where on the Day of Judgment, each person will be allowed to hang one's complaints, pains, unhappiness and sufferings on a branch of the great Tree of Sorrows. After everyone has found a limb from which to hang their miseries, each person is allowed to slowly walk around the tree, searching for a set of sufferings and pains that he or she would prefer to those he or she has hung on the tree. In the end, each one freely chooses to reclaim his or her own assortment of sorrows rather than those of another. Each person leaves the Tree of Sorrows wiser that when he or she arrived. “Take what you want,” says God, “and pay for it!” And so in paying for it, we build huge scaffoldings to support our pains and fears and to anchor our feelings of worthlessness. These fears and pains do battle not only inside, but also with the world. They also build bank accounts and big mansions, conquer worlds, marry and raise families, and own businesses and run organizations.

Danni, I only know one thing—the answer never lies in building this scaffolding and learning to better protect ourselves—this I not living but escaping and hiding and protecting. I think it lies in every day, having just a little more courage and strength so we can let a little more of the world in and a little more of ourselves out. Our true value and worth may only come out of this.

What do you think?

[finding my way]

How are you doing, danni? These wounds are deep, and so is the confusion from it all. As children, we were much too young to be able to process the things that happened to us with a rational thinking brain. We were doing the best we could :(. It makes every bit of sense that the confusion is still within... the gapping places that don't meet, the recoiling that keep us from engaging in life sometimes, the hurting doubts that can prevent us to trust, ourselves especially.

Even though the damage occured within our relationships to others, the healing from that, real healing, can occur in our relationships to others-- positive relationships. There is a huge amount that we need to do for ourselves, but sometimes we need the interaction with others to help us by the parts we can't yet do for ourselves, but maybe could someday. There is no shame in that. None at all.

[danni]

Wow.....you all gave me a lot to think about!!! I have so many thoughts rolling around in my head these days that I can't even begin to make sense of them.

Danni, I only know one thing—the answer never lies in building this scaffolding and learning to better protect ourselves—this I not living but escaping and hiding and protecting. I think it lies in every day, having just a little more courage and strength so we can let a little more of the world in and a little more of ourselves out. Our true value and worth may only come out of this.

David....I loved your story!! What you said above was also very profound for me. Building the scaffolding, hiding and protecting feels so-o-o-o much safer. But the constant attempts to escape also take a lot of energy. This is getting harder and harder as time goes on. This is also where the suicidal thoughts are coming in. Alcohol isn't even working as well as it used to. I'm reaching a point that's telling me I may need to stop drinking though. A few days ago, while drunk, I had a gun, a bunch of vicodin with my bottle of vodka sitting in front of me. I don't know exactly what stopped me but I do know I'm getting tired of fighting. Damn.....you're right though!!! This is NOT living!!!!

Finding My Way.....Your words were also profound for me. Relationship is important and I can do it to a point. I have a lot of regrets in this area. I've had some really nice relationships with some really great guys who were kind and gentle and treated me like royalty. But....I was unable to accept this and pushed them away. In my head they were so great that they deserved better. Someone prettier, smarter, funnier......better. In my head, I know that was not MY decision to make, but I did it anyway.

I'm still trying to make sense of the past. The flashbacks that come are still of things that I can't completely remember. It keeps me wondering how much more is there??? What did I do to deserve that? What was it about me that wasn't worth protecting? Why didn't I fight harder. And worse yet....(this is embarassing!) What about the point where I stopped fighting? I just started letting these men do what they wanted!!! I'm having a hard time reconciling all of this....

Thank you guys for being such great supports. It helps a lot to get these thoughts outside of my head and it calms my spirits to have you behind me in this!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!

[finding my way]

This is definitely a place to unburden a bit from those experiences :(. I'm so sorry all that happened to you. The task now is to let healthy people in to your life a bit, so you can build on that as the direction you want to go in. You won't betray your past by doing that. You will work toward healing your past. That wounded part of you didn't ask to be traumatized, after all. Respect that you were doing the best you could in a horrible situation. We are here for you, danni.

[danni]

So....I've been trying to pay attention to the opinions and affirmation of others. I try to honor those opinions because I value those who are saying them but believing it is a stretch. I more often than not end up feeling kinda sad because I can’t possibly live up to what they think I am. Seriously…..I’m nothing special. I’m adequate at a lot of things. So….it’s just really really hard for me to understand the trust or praise or faith others place on me. [shaking my head and looking confused.]

It’s also hard to express into words the depth of my self hatred. That it all goes back a really long way and almost always come into my head as I’m hearing anything positive. The things I was being called and the words that were being said to me as I was being raped over and over and over and over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do I do with that????? I just accepted that as who I was while at the same time trying to prove to the world that I was none of those things. Although, that never worked.

I don’t know how to explain it. It hardly makes sense to me much less trying to make you understand.

[finding my way]

Turning against yourself is a strategy most of us have used when presented with deeply horrible situations as a child. You learned it before you learned how to think and reason for yourself. It is ingrained..... but it can also be unlearned. You did not have enough power to change your situation. Such utter powerlessness is intolerable for a person to feel. We'd rather hate ourselves than experience such utter humiliation. Do you see what I mean? Hating you is an attempt to blame you, so you can put more in your court and manage it by it being your fault and then you take care of it by loathing you. It's something we do as children to cope because we don't know what else to do. It just isn't true though, so it doesn't work.

I'm so sorry this is your challenge to reckon with. No one should have to do this. :(. Can you let us hold that horror for you instead? And you'll take a turn holding someone else while they struggle keeping themselves together... It is just so much you are asking of yourself. It is so big. :(

[notmary]

I'm still trying to make sense of the past. The flashbacks that come are still of things that I can't completely remember. It keeps me wondering how much more is there??? What did I do to deserve that? What was it about me that wasn't worth protecting? Why didn't I fight harder. And worse yet....(this is embarassing!) What about the point where I stopped fighting? I just started letting these men do what they wanted!!! I'm having a hard time reconciling all of this....



Danni,
I feel like you have gotten inside my head and written what you see there. I have no words of advice, but I admire you for being able to write the words. I can't say it or write it.

[notmary]

Sorry I screwed up that reply. The first section I copied from your post Danni. I am sorry that it didn't post that way.

[danni]

notmary...

my heart goes out to you in your journey through this. It's a hard one!!!! What I'm learning is to not rush it. Do it at your own pace so it will be less overwhelming. It will come.

Just in the last 2 days I have gone from a thought/half hearted attempt to take my life to getting rid of the means to do that and finding some drive to move forward take back my life. I think it can get better!!

[mabear]

danni,

please please take care of you. I am so glad that you have not done anything serious to harm yourself. There are many of us that care. Please keep letting us know how you are doing. You can PM if you like.

[OnlyHuman]

Danni,
I hope you're feeling a bit better today. I can relate to some of what you're feeling. I just wanted to let you know that life can get better. You are not defined by what your abuser(s) did or said. You're so much more than that!! You can get through this, in time. It's a long hard road, but there is happiness out there. You've got people here to support you.. and people in your area that will help you, if you let them. If you need to talk, I would be happy to listen, as well. I have faith in you.. You need to have some in yourself. You can do this!

[ASchwartz]

Hi Danni,

It is not surprising that you harbor lots of self hatred. That comes with the territory of having been abused. It makes no rational sense but it exists nevertheless and I have seen it regulary. People raped and beaten during childhood who then beat down on themselves with the deep-seated conviction that they caused the beatings, that they were at fault for the rape. Even while working with these people and they fully understand the irrationality of their thoughts and feelings, they cannot shake off that way of thinking. It takes lots of time and effort. On the road there are lots and lots of relapses. Do you hear me? Along the way there are lots of relapses.

I want to go back to something you wrote earlier, that you believe you are a fraud in your work. That belief also comes with the territory.

Danni, there is a common myth that the therapist is "mentally healthy, wealthy and wise." Well, it is not true. We are just people and, therefore, come with our own set of problems. Actually, the terrible things that happened in our lives help us to be better therapists.

Sorry, Danni, you are not a fraud. You need to learn to embrace who you are, accept yourself, use your experiences and pain to help others, and learn to stop rejecting yourself. Easy to say, huh? Yes, but, true, nevertheless.

The mental health community will fully embrace you, accept you and even value you, for being open about your troubles and going for help.

One of my best friends was someone who I met when he was the director of psychiatry where I got a job. Yes, he is a psychiatrist. When he came out of the closet he admitted to being gay and then went on speaking tours discussing the problems that gay psychiatrist and that gay patients face when going for help...

In case you believe the story was that simple, let me add some information: Not only did he come out about being gay, he came out about have HIV. Yes, HIV. Well, he became higly admired and sought after for consultations on these issues.

Thanks to modern medications, he has survived more than fifteen years and continues to work and be productive.

Don't hide, face your problems and allow the mental health community help you, especially as you are a member of that community.

Allan:)