Everything "smaller"

[filthygorgeous]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum because I found it just today, but I've signed in so I could share my experiences with the problem I've had since my childhood, which is - surprise surprise - small(er) penis.
Basically, for some reason I found out there was something wrong with its size when I was at the age of eleven (now I'm 23); I remember being on the toilet with my younger cousine who was 8 years old that time; he made a remark that "my penis is just as small as his". For some reason I think this was the initial trigger that made me think my size is not adequate.
So I started thinking of what he said and started comparing my "family jewels" to other guys in the class where most of them started going into puberty whereas I didn't. I started avoiding going to toilets with classmates, I would go there only during class - which was not comfortable everytime since not every teacher allowed us to go to the WC during lessons. I also heard some statements about classmates making fun of other guy from our class they'd seen at urinal saying in front of everybody that "he had a small penis". And since then I refused to go to the toilets with guys at all. Not only to the toilets, I quit going to the pool where anyone could see me and do statements about me "having nothing there" and such (I also started putting a toilet paper in my slips so the bulge would seem at least a little bit bigger than it was). I also had hard times on high school where we had swimming every week. Being naked in front of my peers who were 16 or 17 ys old and already quite well developed was even more humiliating because my penis was about 6cms that time flaccid and 11cms erect. It's grown bigger since then, now I'm 5,5 inch erect and somewhat 3,2 flaccid, but it doesn't make me feel any better because I still feel inadequate. My testicles are also a little smaller than average and so in whole it gives my crotch a slightly childish look. I'm scared to go to the gym or swimming pool or anywhere else where I would have to "perform naked". My friend makes fun of it sometimes and keeps telling me there's nothing wrong with my size, that it's actually average and that he's seen a lot smaller ones, but that doesn't help me anyway. He doesn't know what it feels like to be ashamed of ones own penis because this guy has that trench almost length of a donkey :) I wish I just had a few cm's more.
But what bothers me now is that I simply just cannot enjoy all parts of my life as I'd like to - like going to nude beaches, expose myself freely in presence of other guys... It may seem that doing this is the last thing I should be concerned about but I actually am. I still can not pee freely at the urinals because I constantly feel the guy(s) next to me is(are) looking at it thinking of how small it is. Sometimes I even think whether I'm not rather supposed to go to the women's, that maybe I just don't belong there :)
Okay, I just wanted to share my point of view to what I am and what I've been through.
P.S. I'm Czech so don't judge me for the way I write, please ;)

[Recluse]

Women are concerned with girth. If your girth is 4.5 inches around if you measure it around with a tape measurer, you should be ok. If you are below that in girth, you will have problems. 5.5 length is acceptable to women.

[filthygorgeous]

Okay, I measured today and it's around 12-12,5 cm's (4,8-5 in) in girth. You know, it looks smaller and thinner when it's flaccid but it grows much larger when erect, but what I'm concerned about is its size when relaxed. It's not about being or not being able to pleasure a woman, it's about the conceit I posess when exposed naked and flaccid in front of anybody else, in showers for example. I see (or at least it seems to me) that everyone's got something they needn't be ashamed of except for me. It's even worse when I know I have to take off my clothes and go to the showers, the way I'm stressed makes it shrink, making me think of a tiny-weenie fiasco.

[John Rutledge]

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[ASchwartz]

Hi JR,

I quite agree with you and I am even older than you are, 67. Who goes to be with a tape measure? Who worries about "girth."

What I am aware of is that people like Howard Stern and others, make a big deal about size. It's all nonsense.

What real people want is warmth, closeness, to feel loved and accepted and care about.

Allan:)

[lifeless existence]

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[malign]

But you're not planning on sleeping with a survey.
You just need one woman who loves you, it seems to me.

And, possibly, some patience with people who disagree with you?
No one's making fun of you, there's no reason to respond as if they were.

[JulianP]

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[lifeless existence]

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[malign]

I'm sorry, I have no interest or benefit in making this personal between you and me, "lifeless existence". If I come across as self-righteous, I'm sorry. I have an opinion, but I readily acknowledge that it's just mine.

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

Ok, filthygorgeous, I see what your concern is and I can't help you with that. Just be happy that you have adequate girth as mine is only 4 inches around.
You are fully capable of a normal sex life. In response to Dr. Scwhartz and JR. I fully agree that most women don't walk around with a tape measurer. When you speak of small penis syndrome, I know that refers to men who are fully acceptable to woman but have a body dismorphic disorder. I know that being a little over 5 inches in length is adequate in regards to length and that most women would not know the exact measurements of a penis by just looking at it. My girth is barely 4 inches around. A woman would see that as thin and small without needing an instrument to measure it. I genuinely have a penis that is thinner than most men and women say that girth is the most important aspect of satisfying a woman through penetrative sex. I have seen pictures of penises and have seen almost none that have a girth like mine meaning that most women have seen very few penises as thin as mine. Even though my length is adequate, the anomalous girth would be obvious to a woman and they would immediately know that I am sexually inadequate to please them with penetrative sex. I have a genuine issue that is not a body dismorphic problem and I have to go through life avoiding women, only getting sex when I can afford to pay for it which has not been since 2007, I have to deal with being sexually frustrated all the time and I just want to find a way to manage my inability to properly socialize and be sexually expressive with women so that my sexual inadequacy no longer affects my ability to function in other areas of my life like, work, school, martial arts etc. I notice the bad attitude that I have from not being able to be sexually healthy transfers into other areas of my life and prevents me from being the best that I can be in those areas and I no longer want that to affect other areas of my life.

[nearlydead]

Filthy, Welcome. From your post, it is clear that your particular fear with your penis size, is that in its flaccid state you feel uncomfortable with your penis being seen, then possibly ridiculed by other men. There are a load of threads where men who have had the same fears, and then conquered them at this link. Youre English is very good, and far better than american:)

http://www.measurection.com/

Lifeless and Recluse, both you, and myself have small penis's that as far as the doctors are concerned, meet the clinical definiation of adequate. ie we do not have micropenis. But each of us has a penis which is smaller than the accepted average, that makes us feel inadequate, each for our own reasons.

Recluse's fear is girth, so cannot satisfy a woman. Lifeless feels/knows that he is too small and cannot satisfy a woman. Myself having had the most sexual expeirence (I think:rolleyes:) Know's that both of you are wrong, and that you both just have to be brave and go shag a few women. I know this to be FACT, but even I cannot accept it or truly beleive it. Penis size may be a bigger problem for me, than it is for any woman. If women dont truly care as much as I think they do, then I have wasted my life. If women do think Im scum because of my penis, then I was right all along. No win situation:confused:

Recluse, Lifeless, nearly, I think we have to ask ourselves why are we posting on this forum. Is it:

1. Just to vent/moan. They dont understand (which they obviously dont) my life/penis is crap, backing up our statements as 100% fact with surveys, quotes and anecdotes etc. which we all can.

2.Or are we here looking for a cure.

We know that we are stuck with these rotten poxy dicks. The only cure is to change our attitudes about our small dicks, which means that we are all going to have to accept that some or most of our beliefs MAY be wrong. We must go through fear, ignore rejection and beat the crap out of ridicule.

Would be interested if anyone agree's with me.

[nearlydead]

As an angry small dick man, I found the quote at the bottom of this page and the following two pages usefull.

http://www.penissizedebate.com/page53_small-penis-advice.htm

Dont read the rest of the site though, its all bad news for us. The site is set up to sell a book about "Self acceptance". The site is set up to SELL!

[IrmaJean]

I think maybe what Allan was referring to in referencing Howard Stern is about the general message that society is sending out. We are bombarded with images and ideas of how things supposedly are in the world, when in truth this is not the real world. On television (or radio talk shows) fantasy is often portrayed as reality. There is a focus on superficial things when there are deeper and more meaningful truths to be found in real human beings.

I agree that self-acceptance is the key.

Perhaps visiting the site is helpful in offering a place to discuss how you feel about this.

I would say again that sexual relations are not one dimensional. Ideally, sex is about love and sharing and expressing your feelings. To me, it's not about performance or measurements. It's about people and people are all built differently. Differences make us individuals. I have always seen beauty in that. I know I've said this before, but I have never even once considered my husband's size. I consider his person.

I also still feel some of you appear focused on having to "win a girl over". There is something there with self-esteem and feelings of your own worth as a person. Just being yourself and believing in that would likely attract women.

It can be frightening sometimes to consider possibilites other than what the mind has set in its way to believe. But there are other truths out there to be discovered. I hope that some of you can open your thoughts up to believing in that.

[IrmaJean]

I'd be interested in seeing a survey of the very same women done 10 years later. Perhaps having more life experience might change their perspective on life in general. 18-20 year olds likely don't feel the same as 20-30 years olds or 30-40 year olds.

Maybe try not to condemn yourself with potential rejections before even giving yourself the opportunity.

[nearlydead]

Irma, that survey was garnered from women of all age groups, with roughly equal numbers from 18 to 26, 26 40 odd.
The survey quite clearly states that of the women who where with the 6% of male respondants who were small, felt disatified with thier partners size.

Size doe's not matter to 85% of women, however 96% of men are larger than me, recluse or lifeless. From what I understood from that survey was that size is not really an issue for women, as long as thier man is not small. ie in the lower 6% of sizes, in which case they are dissatified with the partners.

Repeatadly telling us that there are women out there who love unconditionly, and love the whole person, sounds to me as gushing hippy bull. I think you are assuming that we are all looking for the "one", I am not. I wanted just to date, and be recognised as a virile sexual man. When a woman touch's or sees my penis for the first time she will think small. Unless deranged no woman seeing my penis will think of it positively. Nobody wants a small house, car, bank account, boat, job etc.

People like me can really only develop a thick skin, ignoring other peoples responses to our penis's, and at the same time convince ourselves that we are not sub human because of our unfortunate size.

There are women who frequently marry amputees, disabled, disfigured men, because they love them. But these men should they want just to date women will find it difficult, compared to normal men.

[IrmaJean]

I apologize for commenting on the article without having actually read it.

I realize that my views are idealistic, but those sentiments are genuinely my truth and how I view things. I personally feel compelled by the pain of those who perceive themselves as "less than" others. It is painful to me that anyone ever feels this way about themselves. I was trying to open your mind to having a more positive view of yourself. I hope that one day you will.

[John Rutledge]

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[ASchwartz]

Hi Everyone,

I did read the article and the results of the study and it is constantly being misread and misinterpreted. In fact, so much so and I have pointed it out so many times that it grows tiresome.

Whenever someone quotes a percent, you have to ask, "a percent of what?"
The 6% of those women is NOT 6% of the total. It is 6% of the women with men who insist they are small. In other words, 94% of the women with men who insist they are small do not agree. We are talking about a number of unhappy women that is such a tiny percentage that it is ridiculous. This penis size issue is something that men hold in their heads. Even when MD;s examine men who come to them with these doubts, and, the doctors, on examination, assure them that they are normal, these men do not believe the doctor. Nothing convinces these men, not being married, not having children, not having good sex lives, nothing. The reason is that this is a delusion, a very painful delusion to have, but a delusion, nevertheless, kind of akin to anorexia nervosa.

Allan

[John Rutledge]

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[IrmaJean]

And I think, as with just about every difficulty one encounters in their life, there is almost always much more to the difficulty than what is at first presented. There are deeper issues involved.

I suppose that is why I have made a few contributions in this area of the forum - I would like to think that, in spite of the difficulty we "outsiders" have in understanding this problem fully, our perspectives may prove to be of some help to those inside the trap in making their way out.

Exactly. I feel the same way.

My question for Allan then...or anyone else...would be just how do you help someone to get out of this trap? Like with ED or false perceptions? How to break the wall down or help someone see a different perspective?

[robyn]

Hi,
I have had this argument a thousand times regrding the UCLA data. As I am not so good at maths it took me a while to appreciate the subtlety but as I understand it is as follows.

15% of women are unhappy with there partner size
That doesnt mean to say they are not happy generally or not in love or have strong opinions on whether 'size matters'

6% of men were identified as 'small'. Of these men 70% of their female partners did not find their penises of adequate size. Again no mention of general happiness.

Some women appear disatisfied with medium and need larger

About 2% of all men are small AND have satisifed partners
About 4% of men are small and have unsatisfied partners
About 11% of men are medium and still have unsatisfied partners
About 83% of men are medium/large have satisfied partners

Its these stats that have been my achilles heel in trying to help.

[lifeless existence]

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[malign]

I think the point is, nobody's really working on trying to see the other's perspective, at the moment. I don't believe anyone is deliberately trying to be insulting, so, can we start this again, a bit further back?

I can hear the anger in your voice, lifeless. I'm sorry if I've added to that; that's not the point of having a forum, to make you feel worse.

Maybe it got lost back there somewhere amidst all the numbers -- could you tell us again what you're hoping to achieve, by posting here? I know there's a reason, and I'd like to understand it, if I could.

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[malign]

Hey, quite the opposite: I do want you posting here, and I want you to feel safe doing it. That was all I meant; I'm not attacking you.

[nearlydead]

67% Of statistics are proven wrong by 42% of readers, however this can be interpreted many ways:)

To the experts, my penis is 4"X4", which puts me in the lowest 6% of penis size. Is my penis size small?

Directly quoted from the survey.

"In contrast, the majority of women(68%) who rated their partner as small wished their partner had a larger penis. Fortunately for men, however, only 6% of women rated their partner as smaller than average."

6% of some 23,000 women rated their partner as smaller than average. By my maths thats roughly 1,300 women, 68% of this 1,300 women wished their partner had a larger penis. This means that from 23,000 women, only 526 wished their partner had a larger penis. I believe I have had sex with at least nine of these women, what are the chances of that happening:rolleyes:

I have to admit, looking at those figures, it is fair to say that having a small penis means much more to me than it does to women.

[JulianP]

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[JulianP]

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[IrmaJean]

I have a few more thoughts. Something personal of mine is that I really don't like to upset anyone, but I'm going to take a chance here and ask some questions that came to mind.

I think it was NearlyDead who posed the question about why he and others were posting here. Do you think maybe you could think really hard about that question? Are you hoping that others might offer you something that could be helpful to you? Is it a place to share your pain? Do you have any hope of changing your perception about yourself? Maybe you want your voices heard? I'm not trying to annoy...I'm just looking for answers that could be helpful.

The numbers and percentages of the survey are pretty confusing to me, but I do understand what you're pointing out with this.

This may very well be a dumb example by comparison, but I'm going to give this a shot. Say perhaps a job offer came up for one of you and it was a dream job...something you'd always wanted...an opportunity that you simply couldn't pass up. So you wanted to go for an interview, but later found out that 94% of this particular company's previous employees had been fired. Would you count yourself out before you even went for the interview? Or would you go anyway and give it your all?

There are a lot of unwritten variables in surveys. Maybe some of the women were aggravated with their relationships at the time and spoke out of anger. Maybe they were new in their relationship and were still working on knowing one another...H and I have been married for nearly 20 years, but I can tell you that not every time with him has gone well from purely that perspective. The point being that there are a lot of things going on with people that could influence their answers other than the obvious ones. Why let a survey control your life? What is the fear in taking the risk? Pain? Shame? Loneliness?

[IrmaJean]

I hear you and I understand what you're saying. This information leaves you feeling discouraged. I'm sorry that you're feeling this way. :( I'm sorry for everyone's pain in this.

[Recluse]

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[IrmaJean]

I'm hoping some of the professionals will jump in here and offer their perspectives.


I appreciate your openness here. I wonder, though, why is it that this one part of your body is what you believe "makes you a man"? Do you mean this in a literal sense or in more of a symbolic sense?


I know that in the past you've felt that the women you were with weren't satisfied after having relations with you, but I think you also relayed that you had made this assumption based on their behavior during the act. But none of them specifically told you they were dissatisfied, right? And perhaps the eventual dissolving of the relationship had to do with other aspects of the relationship besides this. Shame? :( That's a very painful feeling. Feeling shame usually goes along with feeling one has wronged in some way. Do you feel that pleasing women in this way is something you "owe" to them?



I'm sorry that people have treated you poorly in the past. Most of the time, such cruelty by others is a defense used to keep their own insecurities at a distance. I know I'm likely being redundant here, but what you see is a part of you.


I never meant to imply in any way for you to not post here. Maybe a better question would have been what do you hope to gain in your posting here? In other words, tell us what we can do to help you. What is it that you need in this? How can we best help you?



Changing your perception might also change theirs. During my own therapy, I came to realize that how I felt about myself was what I was projecting in my interactions with others. Having more self-confidence made me more approachable. I personally find a man who is secure with himself as highly attractive.




If you're in more pain than you can tolerate then I hope that you will try to do something to improve things. I think likely you have to start with yourself first. I know I've mentioned this before, but maybe another therapist could help? Perhaps your previous ones weren't a perfect match. Having a good fit is really essential I think. I hope you consider seeing one again. I care about you, LE, and I want you to feel better. I hope that you want to feel better. I hope that you will try.

[nearlydead]

Lifeles existance wrote:

I wish I could communicate my thoughts and feelings as well as Lifeless does. What he has said above, match's exactly my own views, and many of my own expierences, except that I have had some positive sexual relationships with women. I have also had the crushing expeirences of cruel women as well. Being humiliated standing in a pub, surrounded by 20 or so of your friends and strangers, while a woman you have slept with proceeds to describe your penis as "a tiny little maggot, that could not satisfy anyone, go on show everyone what a tiny little dick you have" as well as many other public and privately made examples. (I would kill this C£%T, before I leave, if I could find her).

Lifeless also managed correctly to get the point of the UCLA survey which directly influences the small man, which was that 7 out of 10 women who's partners were described by themselves as small, "wished their partner had a larger penis". For me, as a man with a 4"X4" erection to hear this is devasting, reinforcing real life negative expeirences as true.

Copy and Pasted directly from the UCLA survey.

"In contrast, the majority of women (68%) who rated their partner as small wished their partner had a larger penis. Fortunately for men, however, only 6% of women rated their partner as smaller than average."

Besides what women feel, want, say, or dont say, about my size, I have to deal with how I feel about my size, which is hatred, self hatred, anger, shame, lonelyness, and suicidal depression. Which results in extremely low self esteem, low confidence, bad temper and voilence. Traits that Lifeless and recluse have also eluded to.

I feel now, given that roughly 7 out of 10 women I could've of met in the future could/would feel disatisfied with my size, that the only way forward is to develop a hatefull mindset towards all future sexual relationships with women. By concentrating solely on my own sexual pleasure, and totally discounting her thoughts, feelings, comments and sexual gratifiction with complete distain as irrelevant.

Then while dating, when I do encounter women who find small penis's a problem (as I have in the past) I can disregard them and move on, untill I find a woman who I fit with. I know "hatefull" may not be the best stratergy, but it will definately help when the next woman makes my shame public knowledge. A weapon that every future woman I sleep with can hold over my head untill death.

[nearlydead]

P.S. Can anyone tell me how you quote only small parts of other peoples posts. Irma, I think you are the expert on this.:)

[Recluse]

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[nearlydead]

Recluse, have a read through the stuff in italics at the bottom of the page and the following 2 pages on this link. What the guy says resonates with me.

http://www.penissizedebate.com/page53_small-penis-advice.htm

[lifeless existence]

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[nearlydead]

In terms of having a relationship with a woman, it is possible despite what you think. The conclusion you have come to is just plain simple out and out WRONG. For women great sex is only part of the relationship thing. And quite often its not as important to them as we think it is.
As you know, I am small, yet I have had loving sexual mad dog relationships with some top class women including a model, OK she turned out to be one of the bitch's, but I still got to nail her.
Men Like us cannot ever have the sex we really want to be able to deliver because we just dont have the equipment. But if you check out some of the posts on LPSG.org you will see that the bigger guys have women complaining about them too.

[lifeless existence]

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[nearlydead]

I know, I've read most of them as well, brutal and enough to send me down for a couple of days, but due to the overwhelmingly bitchy posts Vs the positive, I just think there is something off about that site. Particularly as it is set up to sell a self help book.

You've read probably as much as me on this subject, and maybe understood even more. But if you continue to take every negative post/comment/info as gospel, and at the same time dismiss anything positive, then you are doomed to misery.

[Recluse]

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[nearlydead]

Thats made me laugh, I remember when I first read through that site, I could'nt beleive what I was reading, if it was possible to kill from the keyboard, I would have decimated them. But this thing that the pro's keep saying about challenging rigid thinking has got me to start looking for the opposite conclusion. So I have come up with, all blokes with big or average dicks are whiney pusseys, because they have nothing to worry about that cant be overcome. Perhaps all of us men are ment to be angry.

[nearlydead]

Recluse, I hear you with the anger and hate thing, and for me it has its advantages as a stratergy. But it is a negative stratergy. The best solution would be not to care, but not to hate either. However if that attitude can get you to the coalface then go for it, as that guy in the quote says "they might just enjoy it along the way" And beleive me I know from expeirence that us smaller guys can give and recieve good sex.
P.S. I'd tone the language down a tad, the yanks are a lot more sensitive to swearing than we are.;)

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

not relevant

[nearlydead]

[
I agree, what with the figure of 7 out of 10 women who were with smaller guys wanting bigger, Im not disputing that bigger is more desirable to women. But that figure coming from one of the largest and scientifically correct surveys is not 100 to 1. although pretty close.

I've read nearly all your posts, and as one man struggling with this, to another, I recognize in your posts a stone cold refusal to believe that you could ever have animalistic torrid sex with a woman, and that she would enjoy it. You have never stated your size.

[malign]

No one's interested in nabbing you for a curse word here or there, and no one's gonna stop you without a warning (or more, probably.) There is a time when it can cross into being hurtful to others (and again, we'll let you know), but you're nowhere near it at the moment.

We're here to give everyone a chance to speak, if that's at all possible.

[Recluse]

cool, thanks malign

[nearlydead]

I won't type curse words anymore unless I make a mistake.

Thank £$%k for that!;)

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

I am just looking at the situation from a different angle. I know I'm screwed so the only way for me is to a selfish negative bastard and that's how I plan on dealing with women.

[lifeless existence]

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[nearlydead]

.


I dont think urologists even recognize a small penis, I think they only recognize MP or normal as a definition. Just shows you how expert they are.

So you have been in the saddle, and have never heard anything encouraging during the act, and they just laid there. I know from other posts you are educated in the mechanical techniques of sex, so I cant critisise your skills.
What about during foreplay when you were using your fingers, tongue, etc Did they give you any indication of enjoying foreplay, if not unless you've lost all your fingers in some sick masturbation accident, I would say maybe your not listening enough or correctly.

If what you are saying is that, yes they did indicate enjoying foreplay, but just played dead during the act its self. Then yes you are fucked. But not completely because you do not have MP or ED, you are just smaller than average like me. At 4" I have made women orgasm from penetrating doggie style and using C.A.T.

If you are aerobically fit, using your size as an excuse for not eliciting a response during the act is not plausable. if they moaned when using your fingers then they must of moaned on your cock. Unless they were to busy pissing themselves laughing. Either way, there must of been some response.

Yes, I did mean to piss you off a bit. I want you to maybe try thinking a little bit differently, maybe not so black and white.

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

I don't know if they are possible as I have never had one. I am just saying that long term ones are not possible. I should have been more specific. I don't think a woman could look at someone like us and think of any of us as life partner material. That does not mean it is not possible to have a girlfriend.

[Recluse]

Sorry I was not clearly discerning between my definition of the difference between long-term relationship and girlfriend. I have heard and read about guys like us having girlfriends but from what I have heard from women, they are not open to anything long-term due to dissatisfaction.

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

Yeah, I understand what you are going through and it was not my intent to exacerbate any kind of negativity you feel. I just think we both have unfortunately come to that same conclusion in regards to the idea of a life partner.

[nearlydead]

A few did enjoy the foreplay. So I'm fucked. Tell me something I didn't already know.




It was the stimulation of the clitoris with my fingers that they enjoyed. You know that clitoral stimulation and penetration are two completely separate things. They can easily get enough pleasure from manual clitoral stimulation to make them moan and still not get enough stimulation from penetration by a small penis to make them moan.

Did they not moan with pleasure from being penetrated by your fingers?

Has every woman you have ever slept with broken up with you, or did you break up with them?

Have you ever had the "it upsets me that my penis is small" talk with a woman you have had sex with?

Can you tell me how I use the quote tool which allows me to quote small parts of other peoples posts?

[nearlydead]

Sorry I was not clearly discerning between my definition of the difference between long-term relationship and girlfriend. I have heard and read about guys like us having girlfriends but from what I have heard from women, they are not open to anything long-term due to dissatisfaction.

There's two blokes married with children on this forum who have small penis's. I'm not saying the majority would want us, nor am I saying that only the desperate women would want us. There are plenty of women out there who would want us for a long term committed loving relationship, regardless of size.

If you asked Seinna Miller, would you prefer to marry a drug addicted woman beater who has a big cock, or a fairley average bloke with a small cock, who do you think she would choose.

Trust me there is a lot more than just being a good fuck, to starting, or keeping a long term relationship alive.

Recluse, you say that you cannot have a real relationship with a women, yet I'm not sure if you have even tried. Is this relationship an assumption, something you've been told, or have you expierenced this in a GF/BF situation of your own. Just asking?

Lifeless, I know your intelligent enough, not to truly believe that you can NEVER have the relationship YOU want.

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

Nearlydead, I have never tried to have a relationship so my knowledge is limited to research I have done. At the age I am, I am only interested in dating and getting laid. I may be interested in having a long term relationship when I am older but am not sure that would be possible. I admit though, I have no experience with girlfriends or relationships at all so like I said, all my knowledge comes from research which may or may not be accurate.

[IrmaJean]

Yes, you can feel secure with yourself. I believe you can. The trick is how to get you to believe it. What I meant by that statement was that it is the secure with self part that is attractive and not that the physical attributes are not attractive.

Just wanted to mention that the amount of noise a woman makes might not necessarily reflect on the amount of pleasure she is feeling. Maybe she is shy and inhibited? I'm very quiet...

And, yes, Nearly Dead, I copy and paste as well for quotations.


Why guilt? It's mutual sharing. It's seems as though you equate it as it's your duty to please. Maybe if you simply allowed yourself to enjoy the experience there would be less pressure and things might go better. Do you think? If you expect that you will fail at something, you probably will.

For women great sex is only part of the relationship thing. And quite often its not as important to them as we think it is.

Yes! This is very true. It's certainly true for me.

Why is her satisfaction the only thing that matters to you? Do you not deserve to enjoy yourself as well? Again, I would say try to focus on the moment and the emotions and pleasure in the moment. Maybe you were trying too hard to perform and please so it took the spontanaeity of the act away.

I'm not offended, BTW, with swearing. I have 3 older brothers and my H swears with the best of them. If it is helpful, then by all means...



Maybe there is something deeper there that has nothing to do with sex.

I know it's different, and don't answer this question if you don't want, but if you knowingly met a woman with my condition, would you think any less of her? Would you see someone like me as sexually deficient? Again, why so hard on yourself?

There has to be some way to break through the black and white and find some gray. There are a lot of possibilites to be found in gray.

[nearlydead]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearlydead
Did they not moan with pleasure from being penetrated by your fingers?



Man, I think you just invented the deadly "Small Fingers Syndrome"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearlydead
Has every woman you have ever slept with broken up with you, or did you break up with them?

Yep, that will kill your confidence stone dead. Have any of these women come right out and said anything about your size, or was it the usual "I really like you but" story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearlydead
Have you ever had the "it upsets me that my penis is small" talk with a woman you have had sex with?

.

So you found out you were small really late in life, the vast majority of us find out when we are much younger. ( I was 14/15, then confirmed by my first sexual girlfriend at 16, who then proceeded to tell everyone) That first day finding out your small is a day that we all have to live with for the rest of our lives.

confidence is very attractive to women, thats why they have such a great radar for it. Which is a problem for us small men because confidence or self esteem is something which men like us can only fake, and is easily broken by a careless or thoughtless comment.

The Boxer short moment is where my particular battle is at the moment. I just dont seem to be able to cope with that moment when they first see or touch me, and is also the root cause of my ED. Confidence and self esteem are the true golden roads chaps.

One stratergy is at that moment to announce that you are going the the bathroom to wash your nuts, it makes them think you care:) Then run back into the bedroom screaming and waving your arms as a divertion then dive straight under the bedclothes, buying you valuable time. I hope you and Recluse use this masterpiece on your future conquests.:cool:

[Recluse]

haha, that technique sounds awesome. I too have that same ed bullshit but like I was saying earlier, not with hookers because once they have the money, I have fulfilled my expectation towards them. I hate to put chemical shit into my body but I am going to start out using some viagra or cialis to build my confidence because there is no way a woman is ever going to see my limp dick, that is for sure.

[nearlydead]

Nearlydead, I have never tried to have a relationship so my knowledge is limited to research I have done. At the age I am, I am only interested in dating and getting laid. I may be interested in having a long term relationship when I am older but am not sure that would be possible. I admit though, I have no experience with girlfriends or relationships at all so like I said, all my knowledge comes from research which may or may not be accurate.

FECK ME! Recluse, you really really need to get out there and get a girlfriend and see for yourself, since you are only half small, I am certain you will be surprised at the quality of sex you could have, and deliver to a girl. To sit at your keyboard and tell me that long term relationships are impossible, when you have not even tried for a date n lay relationship is just mental.

check out this link, there are american versions of this too. Theres a fair bit of B/S but there have been documenatarys on this company on the TV, and apparently it works.

http://www.puatraining.com/

[Recluse]

Hey thanks for the link, I'm open to whatever works at this point.

[lifeless existence]

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[nearlydead]

Lifeless, I'm not saying this to piss you off, but could it be that you actually may be suffering from Dr A shwarts (:)) version of Small Penis Syndrome. ie Its all in your head, and not a phsyical reality at all.

Now stick with me here, as I know my piss would boil if you were asking the same of me. The reasons I ask are:

1. You state that you never found out you were small, untill after you had slept with a 2 or more women. Only measuring yourself afterwards, and comparing yourself to average. Have your peers ever commented negatively on your size in the showers?

2. No woman you have had sex with has ever commented to you, or as far as you know to your friends about your size. COULD this be because the women thought there was no problem to comment on? Could the usual story be true?

No, none of them have come right out and said anything. I just got the usual story. Not sure why they continue to think we actually believe that b.s.


3. You said that a urologist would probably say you are normal. You also said that you were below average, but have never posted your size.

Basically you are an unconfirmed kill. It is you who have decided that your size is small, having confirmed that decission as right from what you have read. I think the sex you have had did not go they way YOU thought it should go, and then looking for answers, have measured your cock, found it to be less than average, and then got into a tunnel vision of who you are.
Has anyone ever said you were small, either erect or flaccid?

Another thing is that throughout your posting on this forum, you have constantly refused to aknowledge that anyones position, regarding size, relationships, expierences etc could be correct. Myself and Irma both think you are seeing things as totally black OR white with no shades of grey, or indulging in all or nothing thinking. Always backing up your position as correct with an example of what you have heard, seen or read somewhere. Could you only be taking on board nothing but bad news?

Then theres the just straight up absurd.

Example: You stated that the women did react positively to you when you were stimulating thier clits with your fingers, but they did not respond at all when you penetrated them with your fingers. That just plain wrong, for the following reason.

I would agree with you if it were just one or two women. Again, none of them made a sound. The chances of every last one of them being shy and inhibited are slim to none.

Example: We're supposed to be big, always ready, have rock-solid erections 100% of the time, last indefinitely, and give our partner multiple orgasms.

If you truly beleive thats want women want, and how men should be, or even thats what the media is portraying then you are just plain wrong.

Example: Absolutely not. Just like my small penis, your condition is something you didn't choose to have happen, have no control over, and cannot change. If I met someone with the same condition, I would give my all in an effort to make sex as enjoyable for her as I possibly could.

Even though you yourself could accept someone else's short commings, problems, imperfections, you insist that no woman can or has enjoyed a sexual relationship with you. That just sounds plain wrong.

Do you see how some of what you say sounds so obviously wrong. If you can accept you may be wrong about some things regarding you size, then you have got something you can improve on, which could actually make you feel a little better about yourself and your situation.

Of course, advice given between us three is pretty much "the blind leading the blind.

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

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[nearlydead]

"I'm under attack by someone who claims to be in the same situation. Why are you so insulted by my being able to back up my position? And then you accuse me of being here just to post "bad news" as you call it. If all that you say is true, how come you don't have a woman in your life, smart guy? Why are you here? I've spilled my guts. I've written a lot of very personal stuff that I'm very uncomfortable having shared, especially now. This forum isn't what I thought it was and I've made a grave mistake in coming here. "

I am in the same situation as you, but my problem is different from yours.
I was trying to get you to test your own beliefs, to see if they are actually as real as you believe, by pointing out that there are many ways to interpret a situation. Which is what myself, Irma and others have tried to do.

There are a whole host of reasons why I dont have a woman in my life at the moment, not least of which is my own issues concerning size. We have all spilt our guts here about a very personal subject, and all feel embarrased for our own reasons. We are here talking, listening, sharing and venting in an effort to better ourselves or find some comfort.

I was not attacking you, but rather challenging you to give yourself a break, which you then take as an attack, and because your anger is never far from your mind, you have reacted by attacking me "Smart guy" "are you gay" etc. The same reaction you have shown others who try to offer you help.

The trouble with anger and voilence is that it is "easy" I also use it as a sort of comfort blanket. But it also blinds you to what is really being said. As illustrated below:

"Could you only be taking on board nothing but bad news?."
"then you accuse me of being here just to post "bad news"

I recognize your anger, and much of your thinking, as I have come to many of the conclusions about womens thoughts, feelings, views, models of behaviour as you. Which I could also back up convincingly, as you do, with facts, figures, anecdotes etc. However, by challenging those very same conclusions, I have managed to remove or lesten some of thier negative effects on myself. Which is what I was hoping you would take on board. Im not cured, I still have loads of my own shit to deal with, but I am now willing to consider other peoples opinions a lot more carefully than I have done in the past, which has led to some progress for myself. I would hope the same for yourself.

Dont let your bad temper, and a few idiots clumsey posts allow you to make a grave mistake by not returning here.

P.S. "Are you gay?" No I am not, and even if I was, I would not be interested, but I'm flattered. (OK, calm down, JOKE:) )

[Recluse]

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[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

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[IrmaJean]

I think that perhaps what ND has done here with you LE is to try to push you a little in order to find an opening. Sometimes a defensive reaction can mean that something is there to discover. I also think that being in a depressive state can lead to extremely negative thinking, so that is possibly why you are having difficulty seeing things in any other way. Try taking a look at what set you off about ND's words and think about why. Jump outside of the box and look back in at yourself and see what you discover. Anger isn't necessarily a bad thing. So long as everyone stays respectful to one another, that is...Anger is informational in its own way. No one is trying to say that you're wrong. Right or wrong isn't really the point, I don't think. The point is how to feel better. Maybe post more about your anger and where that's coming from.

I still very strongly sense that you are a good person, LE. I think that ND was trying to help you in his own way. I hope that you aren't sorry for posting here.

[lifeless existence]

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[IrmaJean]

I don't for one second believe that. He's in there.

Get those emotions out. Talk about them.

[Recluse]

Lifeless, out of curiosity, do you still have friends and a social life at this point or did that deteriorate. I still have friends but choose not to be social very often anymore. I am the only one of the 5 male friends that I have who does not have a girlfriend so that also makes socializing more difficult. I am fortunate in that my friends are usually willing to hang out when I call them.

[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

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[Recluse]

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[lifeless existence]

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[Recluse]

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[nearlydead]

Page one you got shitty with A Schwartz and Malign. Now you are getting shitty with me. That makes 3.

[I]

I have "lived it" since I was 14, I am small, I have fucked 50+ women, dated at least 80+, I have dated models, strippers, hoe's, younger women, older women, fat (ish) women, skinny women, women with big tits, small tits, and fake tits, women from different races, I made some happy, I made some unhappy, I've had one night stands, and lenghty relationships, I've had passionate sex, I've had loving sex, I've had bad sex, and good sex, I've had sex while using hard drugs, I've had sex with two women at once in Thailand on numerous ocassions, I have had women come, I have had women fake it, I've had crabs, I've had ED. Working as a Scuba instructor across some 20+ countries allowed me to do that.

I have also been ridiculed by my friends at school because after an operation on an undescended testicle, a rumour started that I'd had my genitals removed. I have been ridiculed in the showers, I have been ridiculed by men I've worked with, I've been ridiculed by close friends and family, and I have battered most of them.

I have been humilated on more than one ocassion by women who have been cruel to my face about my size, who have told my friends and thier freinds about my size and about my ED. I've been the butt of jokes and the victim of crushing blows to my self esteem, manhood and sanity.

Aged 45, measuring 4"X4", packing a scar to the left of my groin, one testicle, and suffering ED. I fear I have wasted my entire life to hate/Anger/fear/loathing/ which has landed me in prison, alone, a 10 year recluse and a lifelong depression, all because I never once believed in my heart, and it is only this last few months since actually planning my death, that I fear I may of actually been wrong all along. And I'm actually shaking, near tear's, with anger here you little, (DELETED) because I think you and I, are actually the same fucking person.

[Recluse]

not relevant

[lifeless existence]

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[nearlydead]

Recluse, reading both you and Lifeless, I see so many similarties between us all it is frightening, the anger, the shame, the retreating from life, making the same assumptions, conclussions, arguments as I have done all my life. The truth is I/We/you are wrong to waste life this way.

I think in a perverse way, I was lucky that everybody knew I was deformed, small while I was so young. Because when I got to the age for sex, I had nothing to lose on the humiliation front, I had already expeirenced it. So I just went out with the attitude of "bollocks to them, let them laugh" and it worked for a good while, I've had some truly great times with women, but ultimately I was weak and i let it beat me, which for a supposedly hard man is also shamefull.

But having had those expeirences that I see you and Lifeless constantly saying is not attainable to you both is sad for me to hear from two young men, because even with my size, I know you are both wrong, really wrong.

But what really saddens me is that I see you two making the same stupid mistakes and stupid beliefs built on the same stupid statistics and facts, that I based all my beliefs on. I was wrong, you two are wrong, we can have MOST of what we want. I know that as a fighter you know what it is to fight fear Just dont give in to fear fuck me I sound like Darth Vader, I'm done for now, night.

[malign]

Yeah, I think that's my cue.
Y'all can disagree with each other, with me, with anybody you like.
But I think we need to draw the line at name-calling. No one's going to learn anything new that way, except maybe some local slang swear words.

Could we back this thing down a notch, please?
Maybe it's time to call it a night?

[Recluse]

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[nearlydead]

Please yourself

[Recluse]

no longer relevant

[Mark]

Guys,

I need you to tone down the personal attacks. Stop the name calling now.

I have been listening to small penis concern discussions like this one for well over a year now and I totally get it that some of you have anger issues and insecurities that can also lead to outbreaks of defensive anger. Even so, this is a public forum and one of the things that makes it work is that it must remain a safe-feeling environment. If people start to get frightened by the tone of discussions, the energy here will seize up and the community will become less useful to it's members. Before that happens, I will put bans in place (on a temporary basis - strictly to enforce a cool-down period for a few days - I know you need a place to talk about this very agonizing issue and this might as well be that place if you can stay within certain polite parameters) and keep you from continuing your pissing match. I have no desire to do that at all, but I will if you cannot all find a way to control yourselves.

What I'd like to see is that the major participants here take a day off and then return to discuss some more.

Mark

[ASchwartz]

Announcement to all in this forum,

If people do not behave respectfully and continue to use curse words and inappropriate language, they will be barred from this forum. Regardless of you opinions, whether you agree or disagree, it it necessary and it is demanded that you behave respectfully. There is no negotiation on this. Like it or not!!!

Dr. Schwartz !!!!!

[Recluse]

Well, there goes this forum. I think us small prick guys are too angry for anything like this to last for us.

[Recluse]

not relevant

[nearlydead]

Well, there goes this forum. I think us small prick guys are too angry for anything like this to last for us.

We have not been banned, and they have not closed down the forum. We can still post, but without the swearing.

I wonder if Tourettes syndrome is related f&^£ in any way to Small f*&^*(*g Penis Syndrome? could I be more damaged than I originally thought? WTF

[Mark]

All,

Rumors of this forum's demise have been greatly exagerated. We are in no way contemplating removal of this forum. We simply want to enforce (as is necessary) the civility and safety of this public space so that no one's anger boils over so greatly that it freaks out other people who do not deserve that. All we are asking and demanding is that you stop cursing and beating up on each other. But please do continue your discussion as you see fit. It is totally clear to me that this is an agonizing problem that is hard to talk about. We want to help as we are able and one way to do that is to provide this forum.

Mark

[Recluse]

not relevant

[Mark]

let me clarify that we're adults here by and large and it is not the curse-words themselves that we're mostly concerned about (although I do need the worst of them edited please). It's the tone of the discussion that is what needs to be kept within bounds. We need to keep this feeling safe is mostly what I want to convey. That means that people refrain from attacking one another.

[nearlydead]

I think what we have been advised is.
1. Drop the F$£" and the C&£$ (Which I was responsible for).
2. No personal attacks (Which I was responsible for).

Maybe it is best if we draw a line under this particular thread, an start again.
The 3 of us have an understanding, and some basic insights to each others problems and feelings. be aware that we are all likely to blow up at different times, without really meaning to offend others. Be aware that each of us, and hopefully new comers, need to express feelings, worrys.

But if we are to learn, we all will have to stop/cut down, the "how bad I got it" stuff, and start asking ourselves how we can actually move forward to feeling better about our problems. So Im going to start a new thread, and hopefully make use of the wonderful Irma's brains, as well as the pro's and my fellow "Nutters":)

[ballsontheline2000]

I was a late bloomer. I started puberty at 15 and it didn't last long. I had pubic hair and a 4 inch erect penis 6 months before my 17th birthday. I went for a physical and the doctor told me that I had a hernia and would need an operation.

I had to have all of my pubic hair shaved off and when I returned to school, I was told that the only way I could get my PE credit was to take swimming with the 10th graders. I didn't want anyone to see my tiny, shaved penis. I was able to keep the secret until the day the coach stood at the entry to the showers and told every boy to take off their school issued speedos and put them in the laundry bin. I had to take mine off and then I had to go into the gang showers. Between the showers and the locker room several of the 10th graders saw my shaved little thing. One of them asked me if I was in the wrong locker room. They made fun of my little thing. It was humiliating.

The humiliating experiences of my teen years had an impact on my mind. I began to become excited at the thought of humiliation. I am glad that I am not the only person who suffers from SPH. I hope to write more about my thoughts and experiences in the days ahead.

[ASchwartz]

Now I feel like everyone is really talking. Mark is quite right, it was not the cursing but the tone. The tone is much better. Mark and I both know this is a sensitive and painful subject.

By the way, when I was in High School, ( ya know, back in Abe Lincoln's time :D) all of the guys had to swim nude. Of course, it was boys only and I have no idea why swim suits were prohibited but they were. What I remember is how everyone felt really humiliated by this. No one made jokes. I think no one dared make jokes or the rest of us would have beaten them silly. But, I remember how humiliated I felt and the same for the others.

Allan