Social services, are considering adoption. HELP !!!

[SweetSue]

didnt know where to put this, hope its ok here.

Well most of you here already know my situation, for those who dont, heres the edited version.

Im a single moma with 4 young children. I am currently in p/hospital, diagnosed with various labels, ptsd. bpd, severe anxiety disorder, depression.
ive been here 3 months now (lucky me) The past 2 years I have been in and out of court, as my ex (the kids papa) wanted custody/visitation rights. We left him due to d/v, and spent just over a year in various w/refuges around this country, escaping from him.
I placed my children in temporary foster care, when I first relapsed back in july.

I have been to various court proceedings (oh the joys) over the past few months, undergone the usual asessments, and well now I face the biggest decission of my life. You wouldnt believe how heartbroken this makes me. its killing me.kinda wierd when I already feel dead inside, yet still feel asthough im dying.

The recent court case, well its going to take years. I have been informed that once im out of hospital I will be allowed supervised visitation of
my kids for an hour a week (wow). Social services have stated that the children cannot be placed under the care of their papa (thankgod) or his family members. I have no extended family that would consider caring for my children. They have stated that I am not capeable of looking after my children, even once/or if i get better, even though they acknowledge the fact that I am perfectly capable parent when I am well. The risk of "emotional distress" makes me an unfit parent.
Obviously Im fighting it out through the courts, the best I can.
They are now considering Adoption for my children. (like over my dead body)

My concern is this :-

How can I as a moma that loves my children with every breath, every beat of my heart, put my children through all this anguish, possibly for years.
how can I, just leave them in foster care, seperated, being moved around from one family to the next. This is going to affect them, Social Services in my eyes are causing my children more "emotional distress" than I ever have/would cause my children.
I love my babies, a love that can not be discribed or put into words.
Is it time, now, that i end my childrens "emotional distress"
and allow them the chance of a family that loves them, even if it means that they never see each other again, I as a moma, should put my love for them aside, as my love is never going to be good enough, And give my children a chance of a settled life, with a new moma, one that is considered in the eyes of Social Services good enough.

I need help, really I do. Im desperate

[smallstar]

Sue, this is so hard. I am so sorry you are going through this. Social services can be so unfair, hurting families rather than helping. It shows what a good mother you are, that you chose to temporarily hand them over to social services, so unselfishly, so that you could get better and get them back and be the mother they need. What you did was out of pure love for your babies. I think you should continue to fight for them. Noone can love them and care for them like you do. I think when all is said and done and you have them back in your loving arms like you and they deserve that any kind of emotional pain that they may experience during the process will be healed through your love for them. They will know how you never stopped fighting for them, you never stopped loving them. You are a good person and a great mother. You deserve your children and they deserve you.

[SweetSue]

Im scared that if I do keep fighting for the return of my children, it will only cause my babies further destress. I dont want my children to have to go through all this. they are so young, my eldest just 5, they do not understand what is happening to them, how could they. My children as far as I am aware have only been told that they are not with me, coz momas head is poorly.
Children, (apparently) are capeable of dealing with this. and accept these things without question. They (supposidly) can just "get on with things"
But I know my kids, and on the few contacts that I have had with my children. they do not understand, they only see that they are no longer with there moma, they are no longer together, and they want to come home.
Last time I saw my kids, they looked different, cant quite put my finger on how. They were wiithdrawn and pale. Yes they ran up to me and jumped into my arms, but it was awkward, my eldest son and daughter kept asking to come home, I had to explain that I was poorly. And just after an hour wrench myself away from the kids who were literally clinging on to me, and walk away.
If I do keep fighting, the visits to them, well iisnt that going to make them feel abbandoned all over again, each time I have to say goodbye ?
Wont my children suffer in some way by being kept in this limbo ?
Im just trying to see, what outcome the effects of this situation is going to have on my kids.
What ever I do there is no possitive outlook, which ever plan of action I take the kids at the end of the day are the ones that are paying the price.
I have to work out somehow what is the right thing to do for them.
This is impossible, which ever way i turn or what ever path I go down, it feels asthough it is going to be wrong.
I feel I have been set up to fail them. it is breaking my heart

[goose]

Jj I think it is very unfair and dangerous to ask you to make a decision on this at the moment.

Do not be bullied into making decisions, take your time, plenty of time.

Ask about your rights as a parent, research it yourself (if you can), try and be informed and then you will be ready to make a decision.

Take care

Goose

[danni]

I agree with Goose. This is not a time to make a decision like this. You already have very overwhelming feelings throughout the journey to court. You have so many other things going on right now that you really need to think this through AFTER getting all the information you can to make an informed decision. Can you get an advocate or a lawyer to help you research and sort through your options?????

I know the bottom line for you is that you love your children with all your heart and want the very best for them. Whatever you ultimatelydecide is best, take the time and do the work necessary to make the best decision for them. After all, again, it's about what's best for them. Right???

[mscat]

Sue,
Do you have a Lawyer? I agree that now is not the time to be making these decisions . Not until you are strong enough . And well enough. Here in the United States family reuionifcation is the primary goal. Once you are well , and you can demostrate to the judge this, and you are reciveing follow up outpatient care, perhaps their is a possibility that you will have your children back. With a good Lawyer , and the ability to show evidence of stability in your health , their will be be no way the court can say that you are unable to take care of your children.
I am so sorry :( I was taken away from my parents and siblings at the age of 3, however that was due to extreme abuse and neglect... their were 5 of us and we were all under the age of 5. I was the only girl. My parents never gave up, and they ran off with the infant, than eventully got 2of the oldest boys back . my younger brother and I , they never got us . Nor was anyone ever allowed to adopt us. Unfortunately my foster mother was a bitch and was further abusive.
Do not give up fighting for your children .

[GingerSnap]

We have a child that is adopted and had hoped to adopt other children but we just got old really fast and it is so complicated because in the US, you know all those children they feature on television, newspapers, etc., even with a letter perfect home study, references and supreme physical/mental health, they still hold them in foster care here. One thing I did learn and I don't know if it is available outside the US is that some foster parents "permanently foster" a child/children which keeps them in one home and there is also open adoption where the birth parents continue to have visitation and it can be as sharing as the adoptive and birth parents can agree on. I don't give you this information because I think you should not fight to keep your family but as maybe something you can look at if you need to. If you end up without a choice at some point, maybe something could be worked out where you will always play a part in the lives of your kids. I know this has to be hard for you as I could never imagine how my son's birth mother could surrender him but I do understand that she did it with his best interest in mind, our son has Down syndrome and she was very young and had mental health issues and did not feel she could adequately care for him. If you could just get assistance in looking at all your options and that should be available if you do some digging around, I'm not sure where York is or I would do some research for you also on the computer. If I can do some research online, let me know - you deserve choices!

[SweetSue]

Just want to say Thankyou, to everyone that has commented on this thread. You have been really helpful ~ seriously, cheers. :-)

I realise that this is a decision that should'nt be rushed. however saying that , until i have worked out exactly what I need to do, then well this really is going to play heavy on my mind.
Obviously, I love my children, they are everything to me. that is partly why I dont want to make the wrong decision.
I have a lot of studying, ahead of me. Not easy as I never really attended school. My first port of call, is as some of you suggested, looking through the available information on the internet. i have arranged a meeting with my solicitor, and social services tomorrow (oops, kinda today here now), originally the meeting was so that I could tell them to start the adoption proceedings. thankfully , my heart is once again in alignment with my head, and realisation hit home earlier that there was no way I am going to just sign my kids over, without putting up a damn good fight.
So I guess now, Im going to have to look into any and all the various options and paths that I can take.
If anyone has any insight or knowledge, that may be helpful, then well I would be grateful
thanks once again
Jj

[GingerSnap]

I did want to mention that in the US if a relative takes the children in as foster children, they do receive the pay that foster parents normally get. I don't know about where you are. In the US they have such a hard time finding foster parents I know and if you call about adoption, they only want to talk about you fostering a child or possibly fost/adopt where you take a foster child that most likely, but not definitely, will be eventually free for adoption. I have a copy of the termination papers signed by my son's birthmother and I cried when I read them - something so final and I could not imagine the pain the birth mother had went through in signing these after having my son with her for 10 days. She had a child 10 months later and kept her, perhaps to fill the void she felt?

[SweetSue]

thanks Gingersnap

Well, unfortunatley, my relatives can not be considered for fostering my children, some live abroad, my moma is somewhat unsuitable (not a nice lady) ((infact shes a moo)). And as for my other siblings, well they have there own lifes to lead, and there own battles to win. Thankfully, on there papas side there is no one suitable (i say thankfully as well my ex is violent and well, his family stand by his actions, like its acceptable and the norm !!!).
I have already informed the s/worker and solicitor, that there is NO way im gonna voluntarily give my children up for adoption, (this was not an easy decission to make), quite simply, my kids need me and well I need them too. When Im better they will have the best I can provide. No one knows my babies better than me , there moma.
So now its back to court I go. Been informed this morning that it is going up before the adoption panel (like w.t.f.) in Jan. Apparently this is normal procedure, Im not impressed, not in the slightest. (Very upset.) Now the hard work truely begins, I have this time now to pass assessments (again) somehow proove Im well, and that the likely hood of a relapse is low. Proove I can look after my children, (again) etc, etc.........
The though of facing a Adoption panel (just in case, according too s/worker) is well terrifying. how can they expect me to be calm, consise and helpful. knowing only too well they are disscussing perminantly taking (stealing) my babies.
I have nothing personally against adoptive parents, honestly I dont, its just these are my children, and well, I want to be with them, more than anything in the world.
sorry not making much sense, kinda upset at mo.
thankyou for your kindness and help
take care
sue

[David O]

Good morning Sue,

Of all things painful, I know that this would be the worst for me (with the exception of the death of one of my children or my beautiful wife). As I'm writing I can feel the deep sadness at the thoughts of my children not seeing me or me them... the lump in my throat forms and my eyes begin to water. My son has now been gone for a year (post-college) and I've only seen him once-- I often cry alone in the car while I drive, a silent weep that deeply cuts inside as I mourn the loss of our time together. My daughter leaves in <1 year and soon the loneliness will consume me.

Certainly my situation pales in comparison to yours, but you see, I have no biological family-- I was an abandoned child, left to strangers in a tiny village in old Mexico. My kids thus have a unique significance. My heart goes out to you Sue, for while you give all of us hope, reassurance, affection, support, pieces of your soul as you can, we all know you also suffer in ways none of us can imagine.

On another note, in the late 1990s, the federal Adoption and Safe Families Act established “safety, permanency and well-being” as the goals of child welfare agencies. This was taken from the British model of: "safety, social connectedness and emotional well-being (in that order)" as hallmarks for decisions about removing children from a parent. Over the years I've been in court as an "expert witness" on placement decisions. While this may all look legal, the realities are that >50% is political and games. A parent who knows how to play nice, works with everyone involved, and looks like she/he's pulling it together (even if it's a lie) can snow the court. I see it frequently.

Sue, while I know this is the most painful of situations, you may need a basic lifesaving plan to get you out of there. It is this plan that will empower you and convince the courts and hospital of your healthiness. Right now you may not feel clearheaded enough, but when you do, we can start this process, keeping in mind that time is critical.

With great compassion and affection,
David

[Donna]

Sue, look for a barrister or an advocate if you cant afford a barrister (you can get some advocates on legal aid) who happily work AGAINST socal services and has a good history of winning those cases..i lost my children to their dad because i wasnt aware until it was too late that judges and outside agencies who deal with 'family law' always always side with social services, they dare not do despite their claims.
And if you're not aware of it already all the so called patient confidentialiy? well that can be broken without your knowledge or consent if social services request it in ''the interest of childrens well being'' so be prepared for any surprises in that area.
I knew none of this until after my court cases and i can assure you despite how good you think your solicitor is or how helpful , when you speak to the minority (and it is a minority) who do work against them you will be surprised at the power in courts that social services hold,the tricks they can get away with and that most solicitors will go very carefully and even give poor advice and support because they know they will not win 9/10...so as a respected advocate asked me..why would they waste they're time? they'll still get paid the same if you're on legal aid.

if you're not sure how much power social services have my ex-husband beat the sh!t out of my oldest son (13 at the time) black eyes bust ribs etc my daughter was found to be possibly sexually abused..i had already warned s/s that one of the reasons i did not want my childrens father (absent for 2 yrs) to have them before any of that came out was because i had caught him d/loading pre-teen porn and he was violent amongst other things however socal services still convinced the judges (who weirdly never questioned or commented on any of that) that he was a wonderful father he'd just gotten a ''bit angry'' because my sons behaviour was poor and other than implying that if my daughter was abused then it must have been during the 2 yrs her father wasnt present it wasnt reffered to or looked into and when i questioned my solicitors about this i was advised ''it's pointless bringing it up,thats not what the judge is interested in..huh? i thought the whole point of the court case was to show that I their client was the one who my children would be safer with??) ,but i however according to s/services was an abusive neglectful mother because i was ''a bit low'' ''needed to pull my socks up'' and had been diagnosed with BPD...and thats how i lost my children.

i'll admit i am biased against them but that's because of the yrs of experience i had with them,the reports, the courts, speaking with many others in exactly the same situation and worst of all the way they dealt with my children throughout it all, please search for a legal representative who is happy and has good credentials for fighting against social services.
One more word of advice, insist that if/whenever they speak with your children that you have somebody represent you present at all times and you have a right to do that, i wasnt aware of that nobody including my own solicitors told me that until i later spoke to a barrister who has worked against s/s in fact i was told i wasnt allowed to have anyone present only their father was allowed.
s/services have a bad habit of putting words in childrens mouths,ignoring what doesnt suit them,calling them liars when the children say something they dont want to hear and manipulating simple innocent comments.
you deserve your children and most important of all they deserve you, you are a great mum and they are lucky to have you and as you said you know and understand them better than anyone..fight for them!

[David O]

Hi Donna,

Since Sue is "locked away" in the hospital and thus can't take care of her children, what can she do? The laws are different here. What is she fighting for given her situation? This may be very good info to have right now.

Thanks,
David

[SweetSue]

hi Donna,

s/workers just AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Oh my god I aint got a bat in hells chance. F***.

Im so sorry for what you have been through, geeez. there just is no words.

Im screwed before the real battle even begins. Damn it, i just want my kids to be safe happy and home. They cant just steal my babies. Ive never ever hurt them. im a bloody good moma. I so wish I never went to the flipping drs in the first place. Should of just kept my stupid mouth SHUT.

Donna, thanks hun
i hope your ok
take care
sue

[Donna]

There are longer term foster carers out there, and if you can find a good representative who can show the courts that your children will be better served in a long term settled environment/placement which is semi-permenant until you are out of hospital and able to care for them your self.
But again i cant stress enough it really is better to find legal representation that fights against social services somebody who can prove they do not just somebody who says they do.
It is also worth requesting all your records of social services, including written,electronic,memos, notes of phone calls etc i think it costs around £15.00 now, they will and are allowed by law to refuse access to certain information usually 3rd party (ie drs letters,psych reports,crt etc) BUT if you are clever enough and also request permission from any agencies who you think may have had any form of contact with them providing they agree (and most will for a small fee) then s/services cannot refuse and it doesnt matter anyway if you have the copies from the relevant sources :).
s/services often try to palm you off by offering to let you have a 'read' of those reports however they are not supposed to do that legally although they often do lol but it's unlikely because you are in the hospital,
it's quite a relevation reading those reports :eek: you will generally find many things missing there that you find appearing in the court reports!
i just wish id known then what i do now..my life and my childrens would be very different.

i really wish you all the best Sue.whatever you do it will be a long hard fight but it's worth it,
im sorry if i sound pushy or anything but id hate to see it happen to you simply because you wernt informed.Look up as much info as you can, i had a lot of good informative and legal links until i reformatted my pc and forgot to save them :( if i can find them again i will give you them if they're of any help.

[Donna]

Sue, i didnt mean to make it sound bad, i just want to stress how important it is to get the right help..im really sorry if ive made you feel bad or more worried i dont want to do that! you're not screwed if you get the best help you can, i just didnt know that and went along with the system.

btw i went to my dr and s/services and asked for help because i was ill thats how i got in that boat too :(

you can do it, just hang in there do as much research as you can look for the best help you can and fight for what you believe in :D i was naive and didnt know better until it was too late..you've got more sense than me.

[David O]

Donna,

Thanks so much for your reply-- that was very helpful. Sometimes we don't know or understand the process in other countries--- so this was just solid advice.

David

[SweetSue]

donna seriously thankyou.

i have a solicitor, and a barrister, he works for her a lot. apparently hes meant to be good. my solicitor, well i think shes okk, she has been defending me over the past 2 years, (against my ex and his stupid custody wishes)

Found out about what s/services are really like in court last week. They lie !!!, sorry if any one reading this is a social worker, but hey, the one I got is two faced, and well I speak as I find.

Strange you should mention about information just "suddenly" turning up. I had loads come to light last week. dare say there will be more of that to come for me.

A lot of it is just such blatent accusations that can never be justified, just drags out the court process further, whilst I proove that they are wrongly founded and unjustified.

Its just so maddening, that coz I got ill, they can steal my children. if they think that they can keep my kids coz of POTENTIAL, emotional harm, well I am damn sure I am going to fight them tooth and nail coz they are causing my whole family ACTUAL emotional harm.

I understand there is a need for s/services, but christ why dont they just use they threats and bully tactics on people that deserve it.

Thanks for all your help donna it is truely apprieciated,
cheers hun
take care
sue

[SweetSue]

Hi David,

Thankyou, well just thanks.

Time is crucial, kinda Know that. I am nolonger here under section (yay) as of today I am considered a voluntary patient (yet im not allowed to leave, go figure). And I am still in a locked ward (yay, its like prison, except ofcourse in prison you are allowed outside, for more than 30 mins a day) Dont mind me im upset and grouchy. I dont even like going outsidde for my escourted walks.

Thankyou for your kind response, Im sure that your son is very proud to have you as his papa. Its always good to hear about families filled with love.

I just need to somehow organise myself, get things into some kind of structure, organise paperwork and probably, try harder to concentrate on it all, instead of allowing my eyes to keep leaking all the darn time. dont suppose you have a magic wand stashed anywhere, that I could kinda borrow ?

thankyou

Take care
sue

[IrmaJean]

Jj, you sound very focused and determined tonight. You go, girl! I don't blame you for being upset and grouchy. You want your kids back where they belong.

Wow. I don't even know what to say except it sound like there are laws that need to be changed.

Good luck, Sue.

Beth

[SweetSue]

The more I read this thread the more emotional I become, Yet I cant bring myself not too. Keep coming back to it. Re reading over and over again, and its doing my head in.

I feel that there is something really important in some of the words written here, like Im missing a vital clue, part of the answer. Dont get me wrong everything here people have been kind and gracious enough to share, and help me with is important, just oh I dont know , a few words, keep bugging me. I think in a good way. but there kinda standing out and not sure why.

Darn it . think sue just think. I so hate it when I get like this, so if your short on time. then well dont bother reading this, coz it might go round in circles a bit. should of really done this in my blog. sorry.

See theres always a loop hole isnt there. In films, in real life, in legal systems. "play them at there own game". "play the game", keep everyone sweet, just play the game and do what is necessary. But what if they havnt always "played the game" if they havnt always "played by the rules". the rules. rules.. every organisation has rules, right ?, s/s has to do things by the book, they arent allowed to take short cuts , arent allowed to do things underhand. mmmmm. no thats not it. knowing and prooving are two different things, sue come on womble. loopholes , play the game, legal, worse case senario, they keep my kids come on brain click into gear, just for once. WORK. Wonder if I can counter claim, (is there even such a thing) mmm look into that one. Thats not it though, heck this is frustrating. Its always the obvious, thats looking you in the face, thats the most helpful.

[SweetSue]

donna,

this could be real important hun,
have i understood you correctly,?
i have the right to insist that my solicitor / legal representive is present all times, when they speak to my kids ?
coz i asked them that before they questioned my maisy, they said I wasnt allowed to be there (begrudingly I had to acceept that) but then when I said I wanted my solicitor there they told me I werent allowed.
OK, its weekend now, but if you come on line anytime over the next couple of days can ya just clarify for me.
im gonna try look it up on the net now, but dont really know where to start, so this may take me some time
Cheers for all the help hun, your a star !!!
take care
hope youre ok
sue

[SweetSue]

Hi Irmajean,

thankyou for your on going support and kindness, it truely helps specially on days like today.

Yes some of the Laws in this country need changing, however, maybe they are the right Laws, they are there to protect our children from harm after all. Just the powermad people that are twisted and sick through to their stomache are the ones that actually need changing, or re educating, so that they actually help the kids that are desperate to be saved from abusive neglectful parents before it is too late, rather than trying to make a case when quite honestly, there shouldnt be one.

ooops, sorry bit of a sensitive subject for me this morning, damn its gone 3 already, nearly time for me to get up.

thanks beth
sue

[Donna]

Sue, you do have the right to have somebody present or at least in my locality you do, but as i said before it is important that you find legal representation that will stand out from the crowd,i was also told by my own legal team and not just s/services that i couldnt it wasnt until after the case was totally finished when speaking with the advocate and barrister that i was told that was bs and that most solicitors and barristers just go along with all authorities as they know it's a hard battle and most of them dont have the experience or know how to really fight.

you personally cant be present because they will argue that this can put pressure on your chldren and make it difficult for them to speak openly (which unfortunately is true in some cases) DONT let them talk you into a compromise such as having a teacher, health visitor there because again they as a rule stick with the authorities.

as you've unfortunately discovered social services have a habit of lying,missing out relevant info and twisting the facts so be aware you also have the right to request that any meetings YOU have with them can be tape- recorded by yourself, they will argue and say you dont but you DO, when they refuse and they generally will you have to remind s/services that if they're not happy to do so then they need to check with their legal team. It's not garaunteed the legal team will agree to it but try pushing it.

if at any time you see them outside the hospital if you were to go home etc take digital photos which are dated of your house because they have standard reports ..ie i was having a new carpet fitted in my bedroom and had taken my old one up in the meantime..in the report that translated into ''donnas home had no carpets or flooring fitted'' i dont like clutter and have a fairly large lounge and like furniture pushed back so the middle has space for the children to play, in there i had a large tv cabinet, a corner unit a 3 door sideboard, a 3 seater and 2 seater settees in the report that translated into ''donnas home is sparsley furnished''

i had stopped doing my own washing and each w/end would pay for a washing/ironing service to collect and return my laundry..as a result it was all prepared in bags ready to be taken..that translated in the reports to ''donna does not do laundry and has it piled in bags in the wash basket'' i could go on and on, i know you're not at home but they pull all kind of crafty tricks and after speaking with other people their reports were practically worded the same even though everyones circumstances vary..they also in some areas get a payment for each adoption they succeed with :mad:
there's been a few s/workers (the good ones) who have actually left because of the system and spoken out against them because of the unjustness.

BUT i dont want to frighten you Sue and it isnt always doom and gloom! there are some good ones out there and it can depend on which local authority you are under so you could be under a good one :) you have actually been lucky to a degree so far (even if it doesnt seem that way) so keep your hopes alive,when i first asked for help i was refused and told the only help they could offer was to take my children for respite on occasion but ''unfortunately there's no places available and my children would most likely have to sleep in cells with drug addicts and criminals!'' like a fool i believed them at the time and was didnt fight them when they insisted on contacting their father until i found out differently when i questioned them they denied ever saying it even though i had my family present at the time!
in the current climate s/services and judges are coming down heavily on fathers rights and visitations despite the fathers historys so thats one battle won :D

Another thing that i know has helped some people is if things seem to be getting difficult try to get your local MP onside..they will make hospital visits.
just push push push everything and get as much ammunition as you can and research as much as possible, if you want to keep your solicitor but would like to look for another barrister or advocate that specialises in s/services cases you have the right to insist to your solicitor the one you want ..again something i didnt know i just believed i had to use the one my solicitor provided.

if i can find the links i had i will pass them on to you,they have been invaluable to some people,there is an organisation out there which is fighting for laws and procedures to be changed whch includes ex social workers, barristers advocates as well as people who have suffered and human rights people. im not up to date with what the situation is currently in that area but it is worth looking into.
like a lot of things in this bloody country of ours there is help out there that nobody ever tells you about you have to search for it.

obviously i cant gaurentee any outcome and say that any of this will ensure you winning, but hopefully the more you know the higher your chances and perhaps more confident you will feel.

sorry for rambling..and i really really hope you can do this...people can beat the system and you can too.

take care sue and try to think positively, concentrate on your children and try not to let yourself get lost in it all..that will be half the battle won.

[Donna]

ive found one link, which gives info and details of where you can get free advice from legal reps experienced and well versed in these kind of cases.
you need to scroll quite far down for various numbers and helplines but it might be worth bookmarking.

http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp

[SweetSue]

Just visited that web page.

What a eye opener.

Spent the last 9 hours on various sites, all to do with forced adoption. Oh my gosh (thats the polite version !!!). IMO,It seems that s/services really are nothing but BULLIES, and the law allows this !!!! its SCAREY.

It seems (to me) that there are hundreds if not thousands of people in the same/similar possistion as myself. (and thats just in our tiny part of the UK)

I found lots of good, useful advice, on how I go from here. First thing monday, I will be getting a new solicitor, nothing personal, but its time I got one that knows there stuff on s/s.

I have loads of work to do, and Im desperately trying to stay focused. (with the aid of ten ton of meds) There is no way, Im gonna do anything else with anything, till I get on top of this (somehow).

Im with it enough (for once) to try and get a plan put together, maybe it will help me focus on the road ahead.

it is awlfully upsetting, the statistics, the harm, that s/s can and do cause, especially the statistics (from various sites, that all have drawn the same conclusion) about the harm abuse (physical, mental, sexual) that occurs in todays system.

I am sooo going to get out of here, and save my children before something tragic happens to them.

If they think I am just going to stand by, and do nothing, well they have a severe shock coming there way. I may be unwell, i may be a tad different from most people. but I am stubborn and Im one heck of a angry moma. Im gonna harness all my anger now, embrase it, and use it to my families advantage. By being calm, respectful and just as devious and two faced as they.

I will get my kids. there is no alternative. Im getting out of this hospital, Im no longer on section, so I guess legally they cant stop me. I havnt the time to sit around being ill.

I am scared beyond belief, your words hit home, and geez did they hit hard. but I am grateful (extremely) this is the WAKE UP CALL, that I so desperately needed.

thankyou, so very much
take care
sue

[SweetSue]

My Children are NOT just a statistic, they deserve and will get better treated than that.
Guess Im on my way, full steam ahead, coz this paticular moma, has just one thing to say to s/s LEAVE MY KIDS ALONE.

sorry this isnt directed at any one, here. i just need to say it.

[Donna]

believe me i know that feeling only too well! use it but like you said, be calm and respectful i eventually told them exactly what i thought and did myself no favours but due to the poor legal representation i had and allowing myself to be bullied by them i would still have lost even if i hadnt.
dont just settle for any solicitor get someone you feel confident with someone who can show they can do it and speak with a few..initial advice is free anyway.

one more suggestion i do have..and please feel free to tell me to mind my own :o if/when you decide to leave the hospital make sure you have the hospitals full approval..and in writing!
get EVERYBODY on YOUR side..you can do it and it's great to see you so determined, stick with that and use it in a productive way.

sorry if i sound bossy,but i hate to see people and especially children suffer because of bad judgement and biasness against anybody 'different' and feel very strongly about the whole system.
it's time somebody changed the laws in this country, we are the only country in europe now to have forced adoption!

it's lucky the various s/workers on my case (they seem to be forever changing) are no longer in my town, it's a small town and you always bump into people i would have no hesitaton in stopping them in the streets and telling both them and anyone close enough to hear exactly what they've done to my chldren and exactly how at some point i am going to make sure they regret it..they cant put a gagging order on me once all my children are 16, and they will no longer be able to use any flimsy or made up reason to become involved in their lives again :)

[SweetSue]

hey donna,

I will not tell you to mind your own bees wax, mainly coz, well you understand where I am coming from, that and your advice is helping me.

Spoke to one p/doc this morning, and asked to go home. He was a little shocked, but understood my reasons (a nice on call p/doc atlast !!!) He is trying to arrange some support for me, so that I can go HOME (cant wait) Get the crisis team to visit in my home 3 times a day, over weekends, and be a day in patent during the week. Maybe I can get things moving now.

P/doc is coming back later to let me know. Thanks for the advice, I will get everything in writing before I leave.

thankyou so veery much hun
take care
sue

[Donna]

Hi Sue, thats great news! good luck :D
I hope you'll feel so much better for it!

[mscat]

Congradulations Sue, So glad things are moving in a positive direction, and you can get out ofthe Hospital , and fight for your children to come home where they belong with you !!!!.
Set your mind to it, and you can do it, I know you can , I believe in you. I can't help you in regards to where you live and the fight you have on your hands, howeer,I am on your side, and will support you as much as I can. I know that your children belong with you . Stay strong and healthy for them, they need you.
I know that you will do anything for them, that is what good mother's do , and you are a wonderful mother. :)

[SweetSue]

Hey you guys

thanks

IM HOME :-)

yay !!!

now i just have to knuckle down, continue my studies, get well, win this case with s/s.
and bring my children home !!!!

thanks for all your ongoing support, everyone

take care
sue

[IrmaJean]

You're home? Awesome! :D

Goal 1 accomplished. :)

[finding my way]

WELCOME HOME, MOMMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D

http://z.about.com/d/gouk/1/0/1/J/-/-/GiraffeBaby1.jpg

[SweetSue]

Thanks Beth, thanks for the giraffe finding.... you remembered, i love giraffes

Been up all night with my studies, im so tired. but I cant waste any time resting. I have so much to try and learn, and fast.
Never been one to study before, didnt really attend school so its difficult for me.
if you guys have any tips that would be cool.

I cant believe some of the stuff my research has bought to my attention, its so unjust. Our legal system here sucks.

So at the moment im sifting through and just hoping I dont miss anything too important that will help with the case.

Why is it people that are supposed to be helping (and get paid good money to do so) just dont fight against the system, even though its wrong. The mind boggles.
They (s/s) have with held so much. dont know if its deleberate or not, but it certainly feels that way.

Still, im crawling along, at snails pace............

[GingerSnap]

Sue: Here in the US since working with my son with DS, I have learned that there is an advocate group for just about all issues. There has to be others there that have went through this also, regular people like you and I not paid people who only see $$$$. In your case, they would be people advocating for people with mental health issues where SS has their children and they would be doing it because they had been there and done that! I would search the internet and if I couldn't figure out something, I would just contact a mental health organization there and see if they could give you direction as this might save you some wear and tear on yourself. I know the desperation of knowing there is an answer out there but not knowing how to heck to get my hands on it. I can tell you that I contacted all those groups that were paid $$$$ to help and provide support for families and it was no more than a joke - if it were something difficult and not an easy fix, they played opossum. Know that as an adoptive mother, I do support keeping children with their parents when at all possible and providing those parents with all the needed supports necessary to do this. :)

[SweetSue]

Hi Cathy,

I dont have a problem with adoptive parents, I think most of them do a wonderful job, very caring supportive and loving. A moma / papa in every true meaning of the word.

I just do not want my children to have different parents. I am my babies moma, I only want what is best for them. I truely believe I am capable of providing the love, care and support that my children need, and deserve. thats why im fighting so darn hard to have us together as a family again.

It wasnt an easy decision for me to make, I dont want to put my children through any uneccessary torment. My kids love me, and I them, they ask to come home to me, so even though there is only a slim chance of them coming home, I have to take it, right ?

Thankyou for all your help and ongoing support

take care
sue

[azcu2005]

Sue,

decisions are rough and my understanding of what you are going through is verry limmited so I won't even attempt to give advice, but I can say that God answers prayers. I just want to encourage you to pray about your decision and don't move untill you get an answer. You will know you have the answer when you have peace in your soul about what to do. You may not like the answer God gives but you will know.

I also wanted to share this Scripture with you

"Rejoice in the Lord always, again I say rejoice.
Let your gentle spirit be made known to all for the Lord is near.
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, with prayer and supplication WITH THANKSGIVING make your requests known to Him. And the peace which surpasses all understanding will guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I know your not verry religious but you said you believe in God, so I thought I would encourage you in this way. I cap'd the thanksgiving part because that's what helps me a lot. Just start thanking God when you become anxious for every little thing you can think of (including bad things because ultimately they are for your good if you love Him). Before you know it (and this is not a fix all anxiety solution. I have an anxiety dissorder as well and know how hard it is to be at peace) your mind will be on things of the Lord that are good and your problems will seem small compared to a universe of people's problems.

hope this helps

brother bill

ps
I will be praying that you will make the right decisions and that the Lord will bring healing to all of our broken minds.

[GingerSnap]

Sue: I just wish you were in the US since I think you could maybe get more support here and I am more familiar with groups here too. In the US, people with developmental disabilities are allowed to parent children with supports which I think is wonderful. I think unless the parent is abusing the children that supports can be put into place so the kids can stay with the birth parent(s) and I think that is pretty much what they do in the US. If you could just find someone there that has been "through it" with SS. I know you would do anything for your kids and I am hoping that SS sees that too.

[SweetSue]

Hi brother bill,

Thankyou for your kindness and for sharing that Scripture, it was very thoughtful. As you are aware, Im not very religous as you know, infact I only really go to church when Im feeling at my lowest, to ask him to look after my babies. and well kinda as a silent prayer of saying goodbye. (how sad is that ?).

But I do pray every night, and morning for god to help keep my children safe and happy in my absense. NNot out loud (obviously,~ no voice anymore) but in silent thought. I guess thats still ok.

Thanks for replying and I hope that your anxieties lessen soon.

take care
sue

[SweetSue]

Hi Cathy,

Thanks hun, I hope that social services see me for me too, see how happy and loved my kids were and always will be.

my kids come first
always have always will

Now I just have to relay that on to the people that are causing all this to happen. Proove to them that I am capable, as a moma, and that my kids will as they always were continue to be loved, keept safe from harm, healthy and happy, back home with me there moma.

im studying hard, focusing on everything I have to do, holding meetings with vwrious organisations and people that can help, Im doing this all off my own back, as well as what social services are demanding from me. Not ttelling them exactly what is happening though, coz well iive been advised not too. But I will never give up on my kids, and I am so working to get them home, like they want, like I want, so that we can be a family again.

im looking into the various advocacy sites that are available, and there is one that looks promising, hopefully in the morning I willl be able to contact them.

Thanks for all your help Cathy
take care
sue

[existindeath]

----------

[SweetSue]

Hi existindeath,

Thankyou for your kindness and help.

My family are unsuitable to care for my children, even on a temporary basis. Yes I did say my moma is a moo, and I meant every letter of it. I would never let her withhin eyesight of my children let alone near them !!! (she was abusive, unkind and a unfit moma, in every sense imaginable, seriously) My siblings they have there own life to lead , and some of them are in different countries these days.

Where the meds are concerned, im behaving myself, and take them as prescribed. I hate them, but they for me at the moment are a neccessity. One day I will cope with out them again, just not yet.

Basikly I do as im told, whether I agree or not, do everything everyone tells me to do, and hope for the best. Although I have to admit, that I dont tell s/services what my plans fully are, but that is because I have been advised by my barrister (and several people on here, cheers guys) not too,

At the end of the day all it boils down to is a legal "cat fight" social services, against me.
Its a big battle, and the stakes are in there favour, but Im not giving up on my kids ever. Seriously I am never going to sign any Adoption papers Coz my kids best chance of a decent future is with mme ~ there moma.

Anyway, I guess Im on a waffle again, (no shock there then)

Thanx for your reply
take care
Jj

[JaneE]

Hi Sue, just read everything and my heart goes out to you, and also I am so proud of you for getting out, working on your studies and staying focused. I'm so sorry they're treating you and your kids like this, after all you've been through. Don't give up!

I'm rooting for you! Good luck and sending you Light!

Jane

[SweetSue]

Thanks Jane

Actually ashamed to say I am back in hospital again. Hopefully this time I will get closer to recovering.

Social services are just very mean and well Im never giving up on my children I will get them back one day, and with every beat of my heart im fighting them.

I wont ever stop loving my children and will fight till the day comes when they are re united and we are a family once more.

Thanks for the luck, I really need all i can get right now, so cheers hun.

Take care
Jj

[SweetSue]

Well Just want to say, that its nearly all over. things havnt gone according to plan, like this is me after all right ? What else did I really expect ?

Anyway after months of argueing the toss out in courts and private hearings etc, et flipping cetera, Im now on the final step and awaiting my final hearing.

Fast Tracked Forced Adoption, on the grounds of Potential Emotional Harm. Sounds really awful, so before anybody tries to judge or presume anything, I have never physically or emotionally harmed my children. Infact I was the one that placed my children into voluntary foster care, whilst I got medical help. Yep biggest mistake of my life, and well now Im paying for it, and unfortunately so are my children.(more so)

Found out what the outcome is already, so not really much point in the final hearing cept to be read out to me by a judge, Oh the joys of that one, NOT.

So anyway, I have to return to court on Friday, and then I kiss goodbye my children, pray to god that they will be OK, all I can do is pray that there life turns out ok, with there new parents. And that one day they find out the truth, coz the truth is that I have and always will love my babies all four of them. Kinda Sad, Kinda Maddening, Kinda Riddiculous that these things are allowed to happen all behind closed doors. Shame on you British Legal System.

Well yep thats it, my heart is broken, Im content now in just making these final days before friday as miserable and as painful for myself as possible. Its what I deserve. Its self inflicted and the pain is unbearable, but its how i need to feel, All children look up to there momas, or even papas ( if they are lucky enough to have a caring papa) to put things right when they go wrong. Well this moma screwed things up big time. Nothing more painful than failing the children that i love so much. Such a dissapointment ~ :( :( :( :(

[Symora]

My heart is so sad when I read you post, I can see this is so painful for you. I'm sending good vibes you way ... they have to travel across the ocean to get to, so you should be getting them sometime tomorrow :D

We are here with you...

[Bluerose]

I don’t know where you are and therefore don’t know what the law is around adoption but if you have a say at all my advice is not to sign anything and don’t be pushed into agreeing with adoption unless you yourself feel it might be better for your children. Whatever way it goes insist on keeping contact with your children.

[mscat]

Sue,
PLease do not blame yourself for this . You did the right thing at the time for yur children, so you thought. And were screwed by the very system that was suppose to help you and yuor children. Their is no evidence at all for Social service to keep your kids and allow them to be adopted .... that is wrong. You were only triying to get yourself back together so you could be a better parent, and that is what they did to you? to me it is fucked up.
It pissess me off very badly. I was a absued child. All my brothers and I were taken away , by social services. I was 3yrs old. We were split up. It was warranted. I ended up in a foster home, as did my brothers. I keep thinking about wht is happening to your children, and all it does it make me mad as hell.
I have SI'ed real bad before, but my son goes to my brothers . nobody tries to take him away from me those hospital stays. A couple times some really sick people have accused me of bad crap and I ended up having to talk to SS but it had no basis.
My point is that those SS people are suppose to help parents not make things worse and take kids away , tear families apart , that need to be together .
I am so upset for you. and sad.

[SweetSue]

Just venting/whinging coz well I need to ............

Well its my Thursday, and Im just trying to leep myself calm, tomorrows "the" day, I woulld like to say that I'm not stressing, or freaking out, and that I am remaining perfectly cool calm and collected, and that I am absolutely not over reacting to this situation at all. ~ yeah thats what I would like to say, I'd like it even better id it were true.

Dont know how on earth people manage to go through this, but they do, and I really feel like Im letting everyone down coz I am struggling so damn hard right the now. Keep telling myself that if others can go through this and come out the other side and still be able to breathe then I should be able to aswell. Where the heck do others manage to get there composure and strength from ??????????????

Trying really hard not to cave, not to give in, not to break promises, not to go back to my old ways of coping. So far, Im getting through this one breath at a time. but geez am I flipping spanners.

I HATE THIS PATHETIC SITUATION !!!!!!!!

[Bluerose]

jessicajane1925,

So sorry for what you are going through. You have so much on your mind. It might be helpful to try and focus on one or two things at a time; taking care of yourself and getting well.

Make a plan to take care of yourself and get plenty of rest in order to feel strong enough to cope with everything else. In your plan put down what you want and stick to it don‘t put up with anyone ‘pushing‘ you around. In your plan you could have things like seeing your children on a regular bases for instance, sending them little cards, pictures and notes letting them know that you love them and are going to do your very best to get things back on track. Even if it takes time to have your children back these little things will keep your relationship with your children alive.

I wish you well. And I hope you get some good news soon. Sounds like it’s about time you got some good news.

[Star9DeAtH9wIsH]

Star-- This is my second attempt to get you to show more respect for fellow members. I try to stay out of posts, but when you start disrespecting others, you cross a line. Be aware of your words, they have the power to heal and to hurt.

David O.

[SweetSue]

NO BIG DEAL

NO BIG DEAL

NO BIG DEAL

OH MY GOSH :mad: :mad:

YOU KNOW I REALLY AM HAVING A HARD ENOUGH TIME OF THINGS RIGHT NOW.

I REALLY DO NOT NEED TO BE TOLD THAT MY CHILDREN BEING ADOPTED IS NO BIG FRIGGING DEAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOR DO I NEED TO BE TOLD THAT FOSTER KIDS ARE FAT AND UGLY !!!!!!!!

NEITHER DO I NEED TO BE TOLD THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT SPEAK TO MY BABIES BECAUSE OF BEING ADOPTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU TO MAKE THIS JUDGEMENT ON MY FOUR BABIES ?????????????

COULD YOU OF BEEN ANYMORE HURTFUL WITH YOUR WORDS ??????

THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENTS BUT PLEASE LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE :( :(

[Lindamomof7]

Wow star whatever....

I guess you think you are too above anyone in this world? Do you think you are too cool for anyone especially foster kids??? Are you for real?? Gee I really don't think we need to hear anymore of your biased racial feelings of anyone... So go back and go clubbing if you think you are so cool....

[ASchwartz]

To Star9 and others:

I have read the original offending post by Star9 and the reactions to the content. I am also very concerned because everyone here has the right to feel protected and safe from this type of thing.

Having said this, I am also asking myself if the particular post might be a symptom of Star9's impaired judgement. That does not forgive the comment but might explain it.

Star9, perhaps the innapropriate comment you posted about adoption reflects severe problems you have.

However, I want to warn you that even psychiatric problems are no excuse for bad behavior. Therefore, I am informing you that if you continue to offend others you might be suspended from this community and, in the future, even permanently barred. I do not wish to do that but, at the same time, others here have problems and need support, comfort and help.

Allan :(

[IrmaJean]

((((((Sue))))))

[SweetSue]

Im sorry for causing problems here on this thead.
I appologise if my response was out of line and found to be offensive in anyway.

Things cut deep, sometimes a little too deep, I became overwhelmed by my emotions when I read the post, and reacted whilst still triggered. This isnt an excuse its just how it is. Im sorry.

[notmary]

Sue,
You did not cause the problem. An immature girl who apparently was looking to hurt someone caused the problem. Remember that you have never done anyting on here to be hurtful. In fact you have always gone out of your way to be kind and supportive. Try to breathe and let this girls anger bounce off of you.

[Bluerose]

Sue,

Sorry you had to see that post. That was some very hurtful remarks from what I can only imagine to be a young person with many problems of their own. I only hope she finds the help and support she needs when the time comes. It’s give and take in this world. If we need support, we have to give support to others. I fear she might be in for a rude awakening one of these days.

{{Hug}}

[mscat]

Sue,
I am deeply sorry that a highly offensive individual posted such hurtful, words in this thread. :( you have nothing to be sorry for. Did nothing wrong. It is shameful and disrespectful to all that a person could write those things without little insight or understanding to what you are experiencing.
It makes me terribly angery and sad. None of it is true. That person does have some issues of her own and I think took it out on you , which crossed the line .
Makes me extremely upset for you , and knowing what you are going through , is very wrong for it to have occured.
I care for you and what happens to you, your feelings, thoughts and emotions matter , and I am here to support you o matter what. It is untrue , what was written by this disturbed girl, who obviously needs help personally . i hope that you can separtate yourself from her own probelms, and know that she is the one who has her own issues surrounding what she wrote, therefore cannot be supportive or objective .
I was shocked and so upset to read just a little about the comments , and know it was all a bunch of B.S.
I care about you and your feelings, what happens to you, and what you are experiencing. you are a very strong, brave woman. If I cold i'd take all the pain away that you feel, and make things right for you.
you are always going to be a mother, a loving, kind mother. I feel in my heart that you were screwed by the system, and I hope that you will continue to fight the system, and be reunited .
You have my 100% support , and know that you deserve the very best. I know that you will continue to fight , and know that your babies love you very much .
Cathy