CBT for C-PTSD

[confused12]

Thanks for adding this new forum. I have lots of questions about Therapy at the moment.
I would like to know if CBT can be successful when a person has not verbalized all their trauma's with their therapist. Actually, not verbalized them with anyone, it's still memories in their head, triggering?

[ASchwartz]

Hi,

It gets to be a little like alphabet soup, does it not? :)
Anyway, to answer your question, CBT does not work like traditional therapy and therefore, one does not necessarily have to enumerate "all of the traumas" that one experienced. Mostly, CBT will lower the level of anxiety and the level of unrealistic anxiety producing thoughts. Also, there are other methods used in conjunction with CBT such as Meditation, Yoga and other stress busting techniques.

Allan

[confused12]

Thank you Allan

I have trouble with many other techniques when it comes to relaxation, it triggers flashbacks. So I am kind of stuck and in search for a piece of 'calm' in my life. The CBT work feels like I'm 'walking between glass' trying to avoid triggers. Then I feel like I need to validate with my Therapist why I am getting confused and because I have never verbalized some of the stuff it all becomes overwhelming. I shut down and there I am again stuck and alone with my thoughts. Will it all come together a some stage?

[ASchwartz]

Yes, it should all come together at some stage but I am not sure that you are in CBT psychotherapy? CBT should be helping to reduce your anxieties rather than increasing them.

Allan:(

[Cynthia]

I'm with Alan. That does not really sound like cbt. Cbt has worked wonders for me and helped me get my life back. The exercise called the TEA form has been a lifesaver for me. They enable you to change the way you process your thoughts and get back into living your life. Good luck and I hope you feel better.

[confused12]

Thanks Cynthia.

What does TEA stand for? I have been working on NAT's (Negative Automatic Thoughts) and reprocessing them in a more constructive positive way. Also looking at what types of thinking I am involved in (I think it's called cognitive distortions) and then looking at other helpful ways I could think about things.
I have not been involved in therapy before so I have no real personal experiences to work from. It is confusing and my sessions don't seam to be as structured as I read about. So I don't know if there is some mixing of techniques going on. I do know we have been spending a great deal of time working around a trusting, safe relationship.
Would it be rude to ask my clinical psychologist what therapy he is working with me on? What types of things would I need to ask?

[confused12]

I have just found out that the T work i started earlier in the year was CBT now it is working in with Psychoanlysis I think. Now I need to look at that type of therapy is about.

[Cynthia]

You're welcome confused and I am glad you asked your therapist what they are using on you. TEA stands for Thought-Error-Analysis and is all about learning to counter your cognitive distortions to transform them into more accurate and realistic ways of thinking which in turn causes less anxiety. I learned how to use them in the cbt book we used in my group by Sam Obitz which is a good introduction to cbt and what it entails. It's a fairly basic exercise but works really well with repetition. Take care:)

[Cynthia]

Hi confused how are you doing?

[confused12]

Thanks for asking Cynthia,

I see my therapist tomorrow so am a little anxious, well actually a lot anxious. It may be more about me knowing that I have to be real tomorrow for a whole hour, no lieing to myself. Just the continual analysing of my thoughts is driving me nut. I think I need a permanent Therapist with me 24/7 just to ask if that was a 'normal' response to have. I just maybe need to slow down a bit and lighten up, cut myself a break (lol whats that, only others are allowed to do that). Maybe I am so impatient because I will be finishing with my Therapist in a few weeks. I know it is working and don't what to finish now that I have actually got started.

1Confused12

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused,

Why is your therapist leaving so soon?
It's somewhat suprising to me and a little confusing that you started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and are now in Psychoanalytic Therapy and your therapist is leaving?

Allan{confused:) }

[WinterSky]

Hi Confused,

Why is your therapist leaving so soon?
It's somewhat suprising to me and a little confusing that you started with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and are now in Psychoanalytic Therapy and your therapist is leaving?

Allan{confused:) }

Good morning, Dr. Schwartz.

I do no think his therapist is leaving per se. It sounds to me like he is saying if his therapist were permanent for 24/7 that ... well this is what he said:

I think I need a permanent Therapist with me 24/7 just to ask if that was a 'normal' response to have.

[confused12]

Arggggh - thanks Allan and Wintersky,

You both now sound as confused as me, sorry. Today I am going to sort it all out - hopefully. I am going to ask some questions for once. From what I understand I was in cbt at the begining and then move into a bit of the Psychoanalytic, this was the way it was explain to me a couple of weeks back. So me being uneducated about the whole process I didn't really know what questions I may of needed to ask.
I don't know if my therapist is changing jobs, or just been warn down by the travel he has to do to get here or if the termination is about me. I think I need to ask why? Is it rude to ask why? I think I am actually at the point where I don't really care now, it's happening and I just have to deal with it. I am hurt about it though and I definately don't understand what is going on in my head.

1confused12

[WinterSky]

Hi Confused! Thanks for the clarification. I'd change my username to confused myself, too, but I think there would be too many of us! ;)


I don't know if my therapist is changing jobs, or just been warn down by the travel he has to do to get here or if the termination is about me. I think I need to ask why? Is it rude to ask why? I think I am actually at the point where I don't really care now, it's happening and I just have to deal with it. I am hurt about it though and I definately don't understand what is going on in my head.


I think you do care. :) You and your therapist have a relationship and are both humans. There are different ways to check in with him without overstepping any boundaries. If it were me, I would tell him how I feel, just like how you just told us here. Let him tell you what he is willing to share.

How would you handle it yourself?

[Mark]

I don't think it is rude to ask at all, but it may be awkward :(

If you need to know even if the truth may be upsetting, then it's a good thing to ask. If you think you'd be better off just letting things slide and not trying to confront it, then that is okay too. Denial (not looking at things) is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it is a good way to preserve your mood.

the above sounds like I'm anticipating that the therapist will have something negative to say to you (as I read it) and i don't know that is the case at all. I'm just thinking that some people need to know details and others are okay without them, and that the decision is perhaps best made based on that personal preference.

[confused12]

Well it is nice to report the session turned out extremely positive. I didn't have to ask details but after a long discussion I now know that it not about me. I didn't think it was appropriate I ask any other questions beyond what he was willing to share openly. I do know that I see him until Christmas. I am happy I have been given such advanced warning and he felt that it was important he tell me last session due to me bringing up my issues I had raised. So much happened before, during and after the session. So I am still trying to process stuff.
Thank you Mark and WinterSky
WinterSky I did tell him how I was feeling and thinking. It was so helpful and it actually felt real. He also appreciated my openness I actually think he was suprised to hear me talking so much, I even suprised myself.
I now have even more questions about myself and my action/reaction.

1Confused12

[appleby]

Hey 1confused12 --

I was thinking of you yesterday -- hoping things would go well in your session. It is a big deal when a therapist is leaving and it sounds like you are going to have some good time to process it with him. I am happy that you will have that time...

take care --

AB

[WinterSky]

Well it is nice to report the session turned out extremely positive. I didn't have to ask details but after a long discussion I now know that it not about me. I didn't think it was appropriate I ask any other questions beyond what he was willing to share openly. I do know that I see him until Christmas. I am happy I have been given such advanced warning and he felt that it was important he tell me last session due to me bringing up my issues I had raised. So much happened before, during and after the session. So I am still trying to process stuff.
Thank you Mark and WinterSky
WinterSky I did tell him how I was feeling and thinking. It was so helpful and it actually felt real. He also appreciated my openness I actually think he was suprised to hear me talking so much, I even suprised myself.
I now have even more questions about myself and my action/reaction.

1Confused12

Confused, I am glad to hear your session with your therapist went so well! Ya did good... ;)

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused and all,

Thanks for all the clarifications the result of which is that I am "no longer confused.":D

It is never inappropriate for the patient to ask questions. If the therapist feels unable or unwilling to answer they can say so. If anything, it is sometimes valuable to explore the meaning of the question. However, as I always pointed out to my patients when they said they felt asking was inappropriate, "ask, it's ok."

Glad things worked out well for you.

Allan:)

[jaathom]

Confused,

I stayed with a therapist for 18 months. She used exclusively CBT techniques, and it did not help me at all with the problems that brought me there. I have a lot of "baggage" from the past.

Now I am planning to see another therapist that practices psychodynamics or psychoanalysis and will deal more directly with past issues. However, I`m sure this is a very individual thing. In addition, I have only had one major trauma per se, but also a long history of weirdness with a lot of people in my life, esp. growing up.

So, if you do not think it is working or don`t feel good about the therapist (even the first session), you might look further. Personally, I am convinced that my past issues need to be dealt with more deeply than having me write them down and talk about the laundry list in one session.

Hope this helps, Alan (a different one)

[confused12]

Thank jaathom,
After today's experience I understand you well. I worked on some cbt stuff but I just can't get my thinking around anything other than the positive thoughts being anymore than an excuse or a copout. It's like I can come up with all the ways to change the negative thoughts into positives thoughts but I do not believe them one bit.
If it is deep seeded conditioning (way of thinking) from my childhood I am unsure if cbt can provide the relief I require at present. Just evening trying to allow the nice constructive positive though increases anxiety.
So after leaving therapy slightly relieved last session, this session has me feeling rather helpless. I am back to my confused state again and dislike it no end.

[Cynthia]

Hi confused,
You have to believe your counter thoughts for CBT to work it's magic. Maybe if you focus on realistic or objective thoughts rather than positive ones it will work better for you. That was a clarification I dearly needed before I attained the success I had and still have with my TEA forms. Take care and good luck:)

[ASchwartz]

Cynthia, yes, you nailed it, right on target.:) Confused12, it is not a matter of finding positive thoughts but, instead, Realistic thoughts. That is what CBT is all about.

Allan

[confused12]

Realistic thoughts well that is what I believe I have. But what is realistic to me is not for someone else. So when I refer to positive thoughts this is what other people may think. I am not working well with CBT, I have completed 20 sessions and I have had a 5 week break. I don't think I am dealing with day to day stuff that well and my thoughts are all over the place at the moment. I am still trying to apply CBT techniques to my thinking but it is not working out. So now after completing the recommended amount of sessions I still feel I have a long way to go. What does a person do next? Is it more CBT or a different style of therapy required to try and keep moving forward?

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused12,

I am not sure of why you are having trouble with CBT. Perhaps your therapist is not so good at it. That happens.

Actually, realistic thoughts are realistic for everyone. If the sun is shining then the sun is shining. If its raining then it is raining. The unrealistic thoughts begin when I start to tell myself that "It is raining only on me and no one else and, therefore, look how awful my life is." If its a cloudy day then its cloudy for everyone and not just for me.

Can you give us a sample of some of your unrealistic thoughts that are giving you problems?

Allan:)

[Mark]

So now after completing the recommended amount of sessions I still feel I have a long way to go. What does a person do next? Is it more CBT or a different style of therapy required to try and keep moving forward?Great question!

I think Allan has a good point, that sometimes a therapist is not so good at communicating what needs to be learned in order for CBT to be maximally effective. So one way to think about the answer to the question is to try again with a different and hopefully better therapist. The core ideas of CBT are easy enough to communicate. It is helping people to figure out what beliefs they need to dispute and how to dispute them best that is tricky.

The first stage in CBT is to become aware of the Automatic Thoughts, which is the stream of thoughts that people have, often there without their being all that aware of it. It is the stream of consciousness. The next task, once you're aware of the stream of consciousness, is to distill out from all the creative ways that the thoughts can occur, what are the important themes that each thought is an instance of. The "root" of the thoughts as it were are the "core beliefs", and it is the core beliefs and not the surface manaifestations of those beliefs which need to be addressed and disputed. It is hard to do this distilation. Hard for therapists and hard for clients.

The disputing process is not about being positive. This is not a whitewashing process at all. It is a critical process. You are learning to critically examine the assumptions that form the foundation of the core beliefs and the automatic thoughts that stem from those core beliefs. You are trying to knock out faulty foundations of those beliefs so that they become less stable. You might think of yourself as weilding a sledge hammer and giving each belief a series of wacks to see where they might be sitting on something that is fragile, faulty, inaccurate or wrong. Your job is to root out anything that is wrong or inaccurate. You are trying to get to the objective truth, meaning the truth about the beliefs and thoughts beyond how you feel about them. You are not trying to be positive here, as that would just be another way to build on a faulty foundation that won't hold up to wacking. You are instead trying to build on the most solid stuff you can find - that stuff which is still around after you have criticized the hell out of your thoughts and cannot find any fault with what is left over. If you've done your job well, this process will probably result in your feeling better not becuase you've brainwashed yourself into thinking that you feel better, but becuase you've knocked out a bunch of mistakes and wrong impression and untruths that felt right but weren't, and the result is more accurate beliefs, which just happen to be less depressing in nature.

To switch gears back to the question of "what next", I think that CBT is easier for some people than others, and this can be true regardless of the skill level of your therapist. If you think that you aren't getting results from your therapist, you might consider trying a different therapist (but the same approach), or a different therapist with a different approach. CBT is one of the "empirically validated" forms of psychotherapy, meaning that it is one of the forms of therapy that has been rigorously subjected to research study and found to be useful. However, there are other forms of therapy that are known to work as well. Interpersonal Therapy (http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=119&d=1&w=9&e=228) is one of them too (for depression). And there are other forms that I think highly of as well such as Acceptance and Committment therapy (http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=119&d=1&w=9&e=193) and Schema Therapy (http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=119&d=1&w=9&e=176). And, even if you go into therapy with a therapist who practices a form of therapy that has not been shown to work for a specific type of problem, if the therapist is good and more to the point, if you form a good working rapport with the therapist, you may end up with good results simply becuase technique only takes you so far and the rest requires a good therapy relationship.

[confused12]

Thanks Allan, Cynthia and Mark for sticking with me in this thread.

Well Allan a perfect example would be the thought I had when I read Mark's first sentence re 'the therapist not explaining what needs to be learned from CBT' My thinking is that I have not understood what has been explained, that it is me that makes it difficult for myself. Which I think stems from my belief that I am flawed. So if there is something not so good happening in my life my thinking is. 'This is happening/has happened to many others, why(quit) am I whining about it'. That is a couple of momentary thoughts but there are obviously a raft of others.

Mark I have read your post a couple of times now and it has provided me with a better understanding of the process. I can now see where things have been disrupted in my process. I/We haven't got to the core beliefs, they haven't been challenged enough maybe just rocked/nudged a little. This maybe why I don't really believe in the alternate realistic thoughts I can think of and write down. (again I take responsibility of this because I am not the best communicator of my thoughts or emotions). As a result I do feel like there is a bit of whitewashing (now that you have put a label on it does seam to fit) happening which has provided another sense of mistrust/fear but also other irrational thoughts about me failing all the 'should' distortions etc.

If the past traumas are complex does it matter what type of therapy is used? Like I am thinking, which may well be irrational (lol:)) that some of the deeply rooted thinking has modified my personality. I am now someone that I don't really know myself. So how is someone able to work with me in such a structured way and understand me, when I don't even understand myself :confused:. Does this even make sense?

Sorry I have been jibbering on a bit tonight and I hope I make sense and if I don't my apologies.

Confused12

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused,

Another example of one of your automatic thoughts:

some of the deeply rooted thinking has modified my personality. I am now someone that I don't really know myself. So how is someone able to work with me

Now, really, your trauma is so very deep that no one can understand you???
How realistic is that? It is not.

First: thinking does not modify personality. Thinking is simply thinking!

Second: You are no more confused than lots of other people and therapists can and do understand you.

Third: To feel better, I do not need to change my personality. I need to change how I think. This therapist is not helping me to change how I think because he has confused me.

Fourth: I need a new therapist.

In a comment to me in an early part of your post, you state that it is easier to blame yourself than to blame the therapist. Mark had pointed out that the therapist may have failed to explain how CBT works. I agree with him.

So, what about the idea that:

1. The therapist has not explained CBT to me.

2. That makes what has happened his fault and not mine.

3. I need to find a better CBT therapist.


What do you think???

Allan;)

[Mark]

You're assuming that personality is something that is supposed to be one way and which can become "corrupted" in some fashion such that recovery is fundamentally impossible, recovery being some return to an initial uncorrupted state. If this is how you are thinking, that sounds rather like the story of the Fall of Man from the Bible, and not necessarily how things actually work.

IMHO, personality is best thought of as the sum of two major inputs. First, your brain and body come with some parameters set on them out of the box as it were. This is called "temperament" and this is the genetic/biological part of personality. This stuff tends to stay stable over time. Then there is the contribution of experience and maturity, both of which make it possible for people to change over time and alter their personality. Personality at any given moment is a sort of state vector - the working average of all the inputs at any given moment. But those inputs change and so personality can change too.

Time goes one-way: forward. There is no return to innocence possible and neither is that desirable. The closest we humans come to a return to innocence is not thought desirable (dementia!). instead, we move forward relentlessly, and our only option is to become something new that better fits the ideas we wish for ourselves to fit.

Which leads to a major point, which is that ideas like "pure" and "ideal" are not humanly achievable things; we are always imperfect; there is always some distance between our best effort and what we can imagine perfection looks like. So people who demand perfection/purity/idealness are always disappointed. This is why the cultivation of a healthy self-acceptance, flaws and all is so important. You have to be able to be happy knowing you are not perfect and neither is the world, because there just isn't any other good alternative.

As Allan has expressed, it is highly unlikely that you are so unique that other people who've been around the block can't relate. What is more likely the case is that you haven't extensively talked to other people and so in your isolation, have reached the erroneous conclusion that your case is special/unique. It's natural and normal to be a little grandiose like this, but that is what this sort of belief is, however; a little grandiose.

This is not to trivialize your issues, which I do not doubt are painful and will be difficult to alter or work around. However, giving creedence to the idea that you have endured something that is so unique that no one has any good ideas for how to deal with it is unlikely to be helpful to your progress.

If you need to; fire your therapist and find a new one. But don't stop the work (since you are saying that you are continuing to be in pain).

Mark

[finding my way]

Mark and Allen, you guys might shoot me for this, but I have to ask.... is CBT a bit overly left brained? The thinking function is an awesome tool, believe me, I appreciate that. It's just that there are other dimensions to us too. Do therapists ever blend CBT with other approaches, or once CBT is begun, does that need to be the exclusive path?

I would think that if the relationship was good between therapist and client, that would take care of the problems of being overly cognitive... and that's what's been missing for Confused. Sorry to butt in, Confused! I hope you find what you need in a therapist soon!

[confused12]

Thanks Allan, Mark and Finding my way,

When I said I don't know how anyone could work with me, I think I was trying to say that I don't communicate well enough with the therapist. That I am reluctant to discuss the deeper issues. So the therapist can only work with what I have said and his knowledge and experience. Allan I agree with you that I am no more confused than anyone else and therapists would understand me. But what I don't understand is why wont I talk about 'stuff'. I know I am safe to talk with my therapist, I know the 'stuff' is in the past and I know other people do talk about their own 'stuff'. I have a whole hour devoted to my issues but I struggle to verbalise. Yes, I am scared to talk, but it's more like I don't have the right to talk about my 'stuff'. And I don't think I see myself as special/unique as Mark suggests. It just drives me to frustration not being able to express thoughts and emotions.

I still can't accept that the therapist is in anyway responsible for confusing me or that he is at fault in anyway. So I can't find a new one. I think I just want to quit a while.

No problem finding my way, you can chip in anytime.

Confused12

[finding my way]

Confused, 02-09 has a suggestion for ohsosad in another thread:

"Well, OSS, I think writing stuff down before your therapy sessions is a great idea. I remember that really helping me. Number one, it helped me think. Two, it allowed me to say things I was way too shy to speak out loud. How things have changed, though. Today, I would have absolutely no problem saying I "loathed" my Dad, but I can remember a therapy sessions years ago in which the only way I could communicate that was to write it down. One pointer, though, for what it's worth: if a positive thought comes along while you're writing, don't resist it...write it down too."

I used to do that too. I even wrote little papers and dropped them off for my therapist to read prior to a session.

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused,

I agree with Finding that writing things down might help you when you enter your therapy sessions.

By the way, what is the "stuff" you mention? Can you tell us. That might help you to talk about it in therapy.

Allan:)

[confused12]

Thank you finding my way I will have a look at the thread. I have tried to talk about things I have written between therapy sessions but I stop myself. I have even tried to hand written material to my therapist. Well I did it once and I had anxiety for weeks after and have never been able to share written work since. I have tried reading straight from what I have written but I can't remember what happened during the rest of the session and I don't remember how I got home. This kind of thing scares me. I still write at times but I have also found periods of time when I cant even do that.

As for the 'stuff' Allan I wish I could share and feel guilty that I don't. I did try to share when I first joined this site but I deleted most of it as I was scared of it being here. Scared of I don't know what. I will keep on trying to talk myself into shareing. I think I am whining if I say anything though and I don't really know what to say or how to say it? I must say that 12 months ago I would of never even talked this much about me. A year of CBT has at least resulted getting here. And thank you Allan and Mark for working in this community as it has also encouraged me along the way. It's clear that I am not alone in my struggle and I value yours and the community's support and comments. I do wish I could be a little more open though.

Confused12

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused12,

As for the 'stuff' Allan I wish I could share and feel guilty that I don't. I did try to share when I first joined this site but I deleted most of it as I was scared of it being here. Scared of I don't know what.

You really are very hard on yourself. You feel guilty that you do not share and feel scared of what people will think if you do share, at least, that is my take on it. Do you think yourself a "terrible person?"

Allan:)

[Mark]

I do wish I could be a little more open though

Don't think of this as something solid and fixed. This is a process - something that is continually becoming. Not something that "is". So if you are not comfortable opening yourself now, this may change in the future. You have already talked about how much positive change you've experienced in the past year, so there is no reason to think that this cannot continue to be the case in the gradual sort of way that personal changes tends to come.

[Mark]

Mark and Allen, you guys might shoot me for this, but I have to ask.... is CBT a bit overly left brained? The thinking function is an awesome tool, believe me, I appreciate that. It's just that there are other dimensions to us too. Do therapists ever blend CBT with other approaches, or once CBT is begun, does that need to be the exclusive path?

This is a common criticism of cognitive approaches (e.g., that they ignore emotions too much). Another way of saying it is that they are over-reliant on technique at the expense of the relationship. And yes, this can be the case sometimes, with a therapist who for whatever reason has selected this particular style of therapy because of some motivation to not get too close to a patient (for whatever reason), or with a therapist who doesn't understand that there is more to therapy than the techniques. I don't think it has to be the case, however. A good therapist will always pay attention to the relationship, and CBT properly done is about emotions - it just gets there via the cognitive functions rather than diving right into them directly.

Many of the more modern incarnations of CBT (what I have called the post-cognitive therapies) are now going beyond the straight cognitive restructuring stuff and incorporating lots of relational stuff. The heavy hitters are dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT), acceptance and committment therapy (ACT) and schema therapy. Schema therapy is a merger of object relational psychodynamic insights that focus on relationships and emotions with cognitive technqiues. The other two are about merging mindfulness and emotional distancing techniques with cognitive techniques. The young cutting edge energy is taking cognitive stuff in a more relational direction for sure.

If I hammer on the virtues of CBT it is becuase it is one of the few "empirically supported' therapies, which has actualy been researched and found to be effective. Not all therapy is like this, and it is entirely possible that you go to see a therapist and you work with that therapist for years, and you emerge from the process just as messed up as you were when you started. Look at woody allen and you know this is true. CBT is not about fixing deep problems; it is about addressing moods, worries, false perceptions, etc. and producing measurable improvements that insurance companies are willing to fund.

Lastly (for now), keep in mind that it's important to fit the therapy to the patient. Some patients are not terribly verbal and CBT isn't likely to be all that useful for them. Etc.

Probably a way to think about it is that if you have a focused concern (like "depressed mood" or "speach anxiety", CBT is the way to go provided you are a verbal person. If you have deep seated issues such as a personality disorder, cbt can still be very useful, but it needs to be extended/modified with relational stuff and self-soothing stuff in order to work best. The more deepseated/chronic/characterological a problem is, the more it will require a more extended therapy focused on relational emotional concerns, such as a psychodynamic, or humanistic, or objectrelational approach. On the far side of this, if your problems are very minor, you might get by with just emotional support and coaching and pep talks.

Mark

[finding my way]

Mark, thanks for the thorough reply, I feel & think more positively about CBT now!:p

Have you ever worked with/studied internal family systems therapy?

[confused12]

Hi Confused12,


You really are very hard on yourself. You feel guilty that you do not share and feel scared of what people will think if you do share, at least, that is my take on it. Do you think yourself a "terrible person?"

Allan:)


Yes, I guess I do think I am a terrible person.
As for the fear of what people might think I am more fearful of my reactions if I did share. I think I have been so in control of my emotions for as long as I can remember and since CBT some of this control has been chip away. Before therapy I went through a time where I felt nothing life seemed to happen around me. This change to the imploding phase where I was going to cave in on myself. Now after 12 months of CBT I am like exploding. But because I am scared of what exploding is for me I don't want to go there in case I hurt people. I don't want to let people know in real life that I feel like this as it draws to much attention and I don't like attention good or bad. So I expend energy keeping control to be normal. I've never exploded before to many people around me have though, I don't want to be like them.
So this is like lying, being dishonest, disrespectful, are these not trates of terrible people. Yet I don't feel hard on myself, I rather tend to wish I was hard on myself becasue then I would make myself talk during therapy not stop mid sentence frozen in silence. I would make myself get out more, I use to be social. I would exercise more like I use to. I would eat regulary. And maybe I might find I am a little more hopeful.

I don't know, I am trying to acknowledge that I am not feeling so great. But even that is hard to do. I even lie to myself about how I feel.

Sorry a bit of topic but I am working on the written expression.


Confused12

[confused12]

Don't think of this as something solid and fixed. This is a process - something that is continually becoming. Not something that "is". So if you are not comfortable opening yourself now, this may change in the future. You have already talked about how much positive change you've experienced in the past year, so there is no reason to think that this cannot continue to be the case in the gradual sort of way that personal changes tends to come.

If this process is gradual where does CBT fit as I have apparently come to the 'end of the program' (ie 20 sessions)?

[finding my way]

Confused, may I say bravo? I just want to acknowledge that you are doing it, you are telling us how you feel! I can relate to being super self conscious. It is an utterly miserable feeling. It gets better with more experiences expressing yourself with people who accept what you say.

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused,

You stated that the CBT treatment is ending. I think that you need to understand the reason why it is ending. It is ending because your insurance company will only pay for 20 sessions per year and only just a few years. Once the twenty sessions are used up they will pay no more, finished or not, at least not until the next year. You and your therapist can try to appeal for more sessions.

Also, I do not see how the CBT can be causing you to explode or feel worse except for one thing, and that is that it is not working.

Confused, I believe we discussed this before but it is always worth revisiting: The success of any type of psychotherapy depends upon more than the technique being used. There needs to be a good match between therapist and patient. If not, it will not succeed. A patient can be very angry at their therapist about something but it can still be a good match. Also, each patient needs to feel motivated, you know, really wanting to get better.

Do you feel a good match with your therapist? Do you trust him and his abilities?
Are you motivated and how much? Do you believe?

Even when someone goes for surgery a lot of the outcome depends on how much faith they have in their doctor and in the notion that they want to get better and that they will get better. What about you?

Allan

[confused12]

Thank you finding my way. It is uncomfortable to state feelings but I am working on it.

Hi Allan, from what I understand the therapist does not believe in long term therapy and therefore reluctant to continue and he is also leaving the service he is currently in. During a session he stated he has taught me all the skills. I don't know if knowing all the skills is all I need and if in fact I know 'all' the skills. I mean it's implementing skills that I need help with. When my thoughts are jumbled and I don't know what or where the reaction is coming from the past or here and now and everything seems overwhelming, I find it difficult to implement any skills. I understand this takes time but I have questions during those times which I would like to be able to ask my therapist.

Do I think I am a match with my therapist? I really don't know I don't have anything to really compare him to. Do I trust him? I trust some people to a certain degree but beyond that I don't trust anyone. So he would fit into the more trustworthy end of my spectrum. As for his abilities I have had no reason to doubt them. Am I motivated to improve. Well that is a yes. If I commitment anymore time and effort to improving my current mental health status I would be jobless, self consumed to the point of neglecting my family and totally exhausted. I have even considered traveling an 8 hour round trip to the city to see a therapist each week. So I am committed to improvement as I do really want to think and feel better than I do now. But I do have moments of doubt. I will be honest. I understand the doubt though and I always work through it to try again and again. This frustrates me, I keep on putting energy in but presently I feel like I making no gains.
So then I doubt myself, my abilities and questing what am I doing so wrong.

What do you mean by 'do I believe?' Allan.

[ASchwartz]

Hi Confused,

Well, your therapist has explained where he is coming from: he does not do long term therapy and he has taught you all he knows. I am sorry but I have my doubts about this therapist. If he has taught you all he knows in 20 sessions then he does not know much. :D

It seems to me that you need a good therapist who will work with you long term. Therapists do that whether they are of the cognitive behavioral type or the psychodynamic type. Long term therapy is especially good with the personality disorders because they take a long time to change. Besides, I tend to believe in long term therapy.

What I mean by "do you believe" is do you believe that therapy, the therapist and yourself will fix you? Of course, we all tend to have doubts but having faith that things will get better due to the therapy, etc should out weigh the doubts.

Allan:)

[confused12]

:D Cheers Allan,

Yes I do believe



Confused12

[Cynthia]

I am surprised how much has been written here since my last visit. So much to comment on but so little time (sorry). I will say a lot of good discourse here and I like what Allan has been saying a lot. First thing that my cbt group leader would have said if I said I was a terrible person if to define what a terrible person is and once I did, then point out all of the thinking errors/irrational thoughts encompassed in applying a term like that to anyone not just you.
The other point I want to make is that most of the work and progress I experienced with cbt came between sessions doing the thought countering and exposures not during the actual sessions themselves. My understanding of cbt is that one of the things that sets it apart from other forms of therapy is that it empowers you to help yourself get better so when the sessions are done you have the tools necessary to help you help yourself forever. I still counter my thoughts in my TEA forms almost every day and that makes the new ways of thinking that reduce my anxiety become stronger and stronger.
I hope this makes sense as I am typing as fast as I can because I have to get going:confused:

[Lisa11]

I have lots of questions about Therapy at the moment.
I would like to know if CBT can be successful when a person has not verbalized all their trauma's with their therapist.

Lisa11

[ASchwartz]

Hi Lisa and Cynthia,

In many ways, Cynthia has given you a nice picture of what CBT is like. And, so, Lisa, my answer to you question is YES, CBT can help you even if you have not verbalized all your traumas to your therapist. You see, CBT centers around the present more than the past. The past is only important when it comes to play upon your thinking and feeling right now but the focus is much more on right now.

Cynthia, how are you doint these days??

Allan :)

[Cynthia]

Hi Allan,

So good to hear from you :D
Sorry I have not posted recently and didn't realize it had been so long since my last visit? I am doing very well, thanks for asking. How are you doing?
I enjoy reading your posts and hope our cbt advice is getting through to others so they can experience the results I have gotten from it too:)

[karai]

Hi confused12,
Thank you for posting your question. And thank you Allen, Mark and everyone else who replied to your post. Now I know what to expect from therapy. I finally got up the nerve to call the psychologist's office but he wasn't in; he will be calling me tomorrow to set up an appointment with me. At least I think I will be able to have a positive and productive experience because of all the stuff I've learned here. I will be re-reading all of the replies again before my appointment because I'm still a bit confused. But now I do have one worry though: will my insurance cover all the therapy I need?!?
Thanks everybody....

[Mark]

Karai,

Even good insurance plans typically will "capitate" the amount of psychotherapy a person can get in a calendar year (or in a lifetime). Meaning that they set hard limits regardless of need. And it is common that people will have more need of psychotherapy services than insurance companies will help pay for. You should be prepared for this eventuality, psychologically at least.

Mark

[karai]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the eye-opener! That sounds just like insurance companies--money before people. But, I guess money doesn't grow on trees! I definitely will keep this in mind. But it won't be easy--there's sooo much to worry about already! (I think I have a headache --lol!).

[Cynthia]

Karai,

Even good insurance plans typically will "capitate" the amount of psychotherapy a person can get in a calendar year (or in a lifetime). Meaning that they set hard limits regardless of need. And it is common that people will have more need of psychotherapy services than insurance companies will help pay for. You should be prepared for this eventuality, psychologically at least.

Mark

That is the sad truth and also why I think CBT is the best treatment. Because unlike other talk therapies they give you the tools to help yourself once you run out of covered appts. and teach you nto rely on yourself rather than a particular therapist.

[karai]

Hi Cynthia,
CBT may be the best treatment, but if it doesn't "work" because of the limited sessions allowed by the insurance cos. well, then, what good is it? Sorry, I guess anything is better than nothing--some coping skills are better than none! Okay, you mention that it gives you the tools necessary to help yourself, but at the rate that I'm going, well, I don't think my toolbox will be very full, and I got approx. 20 hours left covered by insurance, according to my therapist!!! I guess I will have to find a PT job to maybe cover the rest on my own, which means no room in the week for therapy! What a vicious cycle!! Gotta laugh....(or cry!).

[ASchwartz]

Karai,

It is true that insurance companies can be fairly rigid about coverage beyond what is allotted. However, it is possible for the therapist to appeal for more sessions on the basis that the patient is in great need. That is something you might try. Also, you are not the first person who got a part time job of some type to pay for the therapy. What I want to add is that, if it comes to that, ask your therapist for a discount until the insurance takes over next year.

Allan :)

[karai]

Hi Allan,
I thought 24 sessions was it! Non-renewable! I will definitely check with my therapist and insurance co. on this. On the other hand, maybe my remaining 20 sessions should be a goal I set for myself in getting better! Thanks for enlightening me.

[Cynthia]

Hi Cynthia,
CBT may be the best treatment, but if it doesn't "work" because of the limited sessions allowed by the insurance cos. well, then, what good is it? Sorry, I guess anything is better than nothing--some coping skills are better than none! Okay, you mention that it gives you the tools necessary to help yourself, but at the rate that I'm going, well, I don't think my toolbox will be very full, and I got approx. 20 hours left covered by insurance, according to my therapist!!! I guess I will have to find a PT job to maybe cover the rest on my own, which means no room in the week for therapy! What a vicious cycle!! Gotta laugh....(or cry!).

I completely understand and sympathize Karai. I am also happy to see Allan chimed in with some excellent advice! Almost CBT like advice in that Allan looked at the same situation from another POV and you seem to feel more hopeful now:)
What book or books has your therapist had you read to accellerate your rate of progress? My entire group was over in about 20 sessions but it was pretty intensive and we started with the book by Sam Obitz and Michelle Craske that focuses on the use of the TEA form thought countering exercise and I still use them and feel like I am still making strides long after my group has ended so even if Allan's excellent suggestion does not bear fruit you still have plenty of other alternatives. I'm rooting for you:D

[karai]

Hi Cynthia,
If Allan's suggestion does not pan out for me, well, I don't mind finding that PT job to cover all the therapy I need, at least it will get me out of the house.
I have not been assigned any books to read by my therapist as yet, but he gave me a self esteem article and a related 3-part homework assignment to do. This is supposed to take approximately 2 months to complete, and consists of listing all the good things I feel about myself. Well, it sounds simple enough but took me 2 days to just think of---nothing! I couldn't find anything to jot down so I ended up creating a worksheet to list all these positive things instead; I figure at least I will have done something constructive in those 2 days! Well, surprise surprise, this gave me my first 2 items! Anyway, I am still working on this and have only completed the first step of the first part after almost a week. For every positive thing about myself I can think of, I can think of 3 negative ones. Well, I'm not going to give up yet--I have to have something to show at my next appointment!
Regarding those books you read, do you have the titles for them? Maybe I can ask my therapist about them too. Well, thanks for the suggestions and wish me luck in completing my homework!

[Mark]

It's important to remember that when you have a problem and want to work on it - helping professionals may be absolutely essential to the process of healing/change, but they only facilitate the change - they do not do the change themselves. What I'm getting at is that it is important to own the change that you experience as something you've created - not the doctor. This is, of course, far more true of a statement/suggestion when you are working with a psychotherapist than with a surgeon :) A therapist can point you in a direction and help hold you on a path (like a good coach might) but after a point in time, you may find that you've learned the skills you needed to help yourself - say to help yourself change your mood - and have them within yourself to use independently of the therapist. Such skills are like any other skills - if you use them a lot you will maintain them and grow them and if you stop using them they will atrophy. There's a reason why they talk about the "practice" of therapy. If you stop practicing the skills you've learned you will run the risk of losing them.

I don't meant to suggest that its ever easy to reach a point where you can function completely independently. People are social and it is most always helpful to have someone else to bounce ideas and perceptions off of. But I do mean to suggest that people can become more independent and capable as a result of practicing therapy-oriented coping skills.

[karai]

Hi Mark,
I think you are telling me that I shouldn't see therapy as something on going, never-ending--that eventually I will have to stand on my own 2 feet. I get it. But right now I feel that goal is something that is so very far away. I know I am becoming dependent on my therapist because right now he is the only one I can talk to, besides people on this site. I am surrounded by family and "friends", but family have their own lives and are very judgmental and my "friends" I can't trust. The only person I feel safe opening up to is my therapist. It would be good to see that bright light at the end of the tunnel, but right now it seems just a flicker from a match--very weak and quickly extinguishable. I do understand that I have to change my way of thinking, but once I'm out in the big, bad world (out of the therapist's office), years of negativity is pretty hard to get rid of. I guess I react first, then think later. I haven't learned those coping skills yet to handle these emotions, let alone understand why I react the way I do. Sometimes I feel just hopeless--okay there we go again with that negative thinking! Well, at least I caught that one. I guess I'm a work in slow progress. Thanks for your input. Now I understand that therapy shouldn't be a "forever" thing, and that I have to own and practice what I learn. Maybe there is hope for an old dog like me afterall.

[finding my way]

Karai, it DOES take a while to get this stuff, and we DO need help along the way. So really, you are right on schedule;).

[karai]

Hi finding my way,
Thanks for the reassurances. That should make me feel better, but tonight I'm in kind of a funk brought on by my therapist not returning my call yesterday. Of course this could be a totally innocent situation, like not getting the message, but regardless, I'm still in this funk. I refuse to bother him during the weekend, so I'll wait til Monday to call him again. Like I said, I wish I could learn new behavior faster so I don't ever have to feel like this again. Can't deal with this kind of feeling any longer. I want to sleep so I can just not think about it, but all I do when I go to bed is think! Nothing new. I'll just deal with it like I usually do--surfing the internet all night long. But thank you anyway, and sorry for burdening you with my negativity.

[finding my way]

Well, yes, you need help at this phase of your journey, not just assurances. And yes, you will reach a point of greater independence down the road, but there just are phases when we can't figure things out alone. That neediness may feel like a burden. I think we are all taught to think that. But how does that help? For me, learning to find patience for my neediest parts calmed down a lot of the struggle. It also opened my eyes to the neediness in those around me. No I can't fix all the neediness everywhere, and maybe there isn't even one thing I can do about it, but I don't have to go all reactive and run away either, see what I mean? Hope you got some sleep!:o

[karai]

Hi finding my way,
Gee, I never realized I was so needy. Yuk!! I recognize that in one of my friends and was adamant about never being like that. But you're right! I guess this dependence on my therapist is being needy. Actually, that phone call wasn't a "needy" phone call; I just wanted to pick up the tapes he was going to give me to help me with my sleep problem, a week earlier than my next appointment. (I had really bad insomnia last weekend and didn't want to go through that again this weekend). Actually I didn't really need it anyway. I had 3 - 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep last night which is really good for me. I feel rested today. Regarding my therapy, I feel I'm not progressing much because during my appointments, I can't think of much to say, but outside of his office I have these great discussions with him and tell him everything I want to say, all in my head! I figure I'll write this all down in my journal and read it to him in my next appt. but it all seems so awkward. Maybe I'm still hesitant about revealing anything about myself. I can't talk freely like I do here on this website---because I'm not anonymous to him!! We're face to face with nowhere for me to hide! Go figure, I'm a therapy coward. Do you think I should print out some of my posts for him to read? I think he'll get to know the yukky me faster, then I'll get to where I want to be sooner. Well, thanks for your help. Take care.

[finding my way]

What yukky you? I don't see her:p. If these uncomfortable feelings make you yukky, then I'm yukky too. So are we all. :o

[Mark]

In classical psychodynamic psychotherapy, the client is supposed to get dependent on the therapist. And then over time this dependency is worked through and greater independence results. I'm not sure that it always works out that way, but it does sometimes.

At any rate, I would not worry too much about being too needy or whatever right now. If you're working hard to confront things that are uncomfortable in your therapist you're probably on track. And if you're learning to catch yourself in negative thoughts that before you might have just uncritically accepted, that is good too. It takes a while.

Please don't be hard on yourself.

[karai]

Hi,
finding my way, you're too kind, and no, you definitely are not yukky!
And, thanks to both you and Mark, I feel a whole lot better now to know that I'm right on track in my therapy. I guess I'm just so confused right now and, I guess, impatient! I've always been hard on myself for as far back as I can remember; it'll take some undoing but I guess I got the time--I got nowhere else to go but forward. Thanks a bunch!

[tmays]

Thanks for adding this new forum. I have lots of questions about Therapy at the moment.
I would like to know if CBT can be successful when a person has not verbalized all their trauma's with their therapist. Actually, not verbalized them with anyone, it's still memories in their head, triggering?

I think so but you have to get these thoughts down on paper and counter them. I just completed cbt and it is wonderful. I have turned my thinking around and am pretty good at countering 99% of my thoughts in my tea forms now. Cbt is definitely worth trying!

[tmays]

Hi,
finding my way, you're too kind, and no, you definitely are not yukky!
And, thanks to both you and Mark, I feel a whole lot better now to know that I'm right on track in my therapy. I guess I'm just so confused right now and, I guess, impatient! I've always been hard on myself for as far back as I can remember; it'll take some undoing but I guess I got the time--I got nowhere else to go but forward. Thanks a bunch!

I think you are on the right track and moving at a decent speed. I know I was impatient early on too, I think that is normal because who likes anxiety and all of its side effects? I learned not to be so hard on myself and am becoming more patient with myself and others everyday and it makes life more enjoyable. Hang in there and keep countering your thoughts and you will be feeling a lot better soon:)

[karai]

Thanks tmays,
I just can't wait 'til life becomes enjoyable! Haven't experienced that in a very long time, or ever!? I guess I'm still confused and still get those stupid feelings that I can't explain, mostly late at night and early mornings. When it's quiet and there are no distractions to counter the thoughts, just want to scream! I get totally afraid that the thoughts will turn into something worse; guess that's why I'm so impatient. But, it's good to hear that there is hope somewhere down the line...

[tmays]

YW. Just remember that believing you can get better is half the battle so try and cherish your little victories along the way:)

[karai]

Thanks tmays,
So far, victories-0, bad thoughts-a zillion? Sorry, I'm starting to get into one of my funky moods again and am trying to suppress it. I think I have to get back to the Lounge and read all those jokes and one-liners then listen to my sleep tape which usually helps if I concentrate really hard. Thanks again for your positivity (is that a word?). Take care...

[Cynthia]

Hi Cynthia,
If Allan's suggestion does not pan out for me, well, I don't mind finding that PT job to cover all the therapy I need, at least it will get me out of the house.
I have not been assigned any books to read by my therapist as yet, but he gave me a self esteem article and a related 3-part homework assignment to do. This is supposed to take approximately 2 months to complete, and consists of listing all the good things I feel about myself. Well, it sounds simple enough but took me 2 days to just think of---nothing! I couldn't find anything to jot down so I ended up creating a worksheet to list all these positive things instead; I figure at least I will have done something constructive in those 2 days! Well, surprise surprise, this gave me my first 2 items! Anyway, I am still working on this and have only completed the first step of the first part after almost a week. For every positive thing about myself I can think of, I can think of 3 negative ones. Well, I'm not going to give up yet--I have to have something to show at my next appointment!
Regarding those books you read, do you have the titles for them? Maybe I can ask my therapist about them too. Well, thanks for the suggestions and wish me luck in completing my homework!

Hi Karai,
Wow a lot of replies since I last checked in here. I have not read all of them but remember this is a process and takes time. Just getting started on these assignments and finding even just two things is a good step. It may help to ask someone else what they find positive about you. When you are stuck in misery it's hard to see clearly and that's part of the problem.
As for the Books I read, my favorite is the CBT book by Sam Obitz and Michelle Craske called Been There, Done That? DO THis! it is short and simple and is the book that got me started using the TEA form exercise.
Good luck and keep at it:D

[karai]

Hi Cynthia,
Thanks. I actually did finish the first part of my assignment and started the second part. Unfortunately, when I re-read what I wrote, they were not all positive things, but negative things I made sound positive! I pointed this out to my T. and he told me to just keep on trying. I think I'm just a hopelessly negative person! Now I have to do a listing of my accomplishments I am proud of. Well, now it's even worse! I've been around a long time (perhaps too long!) and I have nothing to show for it--positively at least. This "simple" assignment is really stressing me out! I work on my list everyday but stare at it w/ a blank mind. I guess I will disappoint my T. again w/ virtually no progress made! I think I will throw in the towel, or my list at my T! just kidding (NOT!!!).
I think I better take a look at the Obitz book you mentioned; I think I need it desperately! Thanks again. Take care.

[malign]

I think I'm just a hopelessly negative person!

You could start with this one! ;-)

I think the point of the exercise is that you're not expected to do very well at it the first time, otherwise you wouldn't need it. It's good to go back and look at your earlier answers again, and the fact that you noticed the negativity is a sign of progress. The whole point is to bring it to the front of your mind so you can question it.

I think I will throw in the towel, or my list at my T!

This is why most therapists prefer that clients not bring towels (or anything harder) to the sessions. :-P

[karai]

Hi malign,
You showed me that I had some positive in my negativity! Wow, some progress at last! I guess for now it will be 2 steps forward, one step backwards, but at least I'm moving forward, ever so slowly! Guess I gotta look at the assignment differently--something to help me be more aware of my thoughts and not as a chore that stresses me out! And, once again, thanks for making me laugh (towel reference). Thanks all!

[tmays]

Thanks tmays,
So far, victories-0, bad thoughts-a zillion? Sorry, I'm starting to get into one of my funky moods again and am trying to suppress it. I think I have to get back to the Lounge and read all those jokes and one-liners then listen to my sleep tape which usually helps if I concentrate really hard. Thanks again for your positivity (is that a word?). Take care...

I don't know if it is a word or not but not should be:p
Sometimes you have to keep banging on the door to get it to fall down. Ask your T to help you come up with them. Your T just said keep trying? That's bunk. You are paying them and they need to help jumpstart you!

[karai]

Hi tmays,
Actually my T said a lot more than that but the gist was to keep at it. He did give me examples but I guess I'm stubborn; if it doesn't fit me, I dismiss it! I give my T a lot of credit for not giving up on me. Sometimes I think he wants to pull his hair out because I'm so resistantly (another made-up word?) negative. Anyways, my last session w/ my T was a lot better and I actually am feeling a lot more positive now and have been since that session this past Monday--so he must be doing something right! Thanks for caring tho', and take care...:p

[Cynthia]

Karai,
I am happy to hear your T is more helpful now. I was about to paraphrase what the other poster said about that's what you pay your T for but thankfully read that before answering you. Hang in there and slowly but surely you will keep making progress:)

[karai]

I hope so, Cynthia. I really need a big dose of progress, anything positive. My problem is with believing in and accepting complements others give me. I have to learn to believe in myself, I guess. I'm trying to change my perspective of things and one day, maybe, I will be successful! Thank you! :)

[Cynthia]

I certainly hope so too and believe that you will:D

[tmays]

Karai it sounds like you are making strides (as well as more new words lol). Try and be patient with yourself and keep learning to catch the thinking errors you make and counter and correct them. Not being able to accept a compliment is the thinking error ignoring the positive I think. Keep in touch.

[karai]

Hi tmays,
Good hearing from you again. How have you been? :cool:
I do think I have been making some progress, but then bad stuff happen and I go right back to reacting the way I've always reacted, until I catch myself. Catching myself is progress in itself, right?! Sometimes I don't know what the trigger was, but I am learning to catch the pathological critic who never seems to go away. He sits on my shoulder and always has something to say (p.c.'s name is Chip!). Just kidding, there are actually 4 citics I kind of recognize: my sister, my 4th grade teacher, the bully from kindergarten and myself. Maybe there's more, but these are the 4 culprits who are very verbal and haunt me daily, probably even while I sleep! Oh well, at least I know who they are and can call them by name, except for that kindergarten kid, forgot his. And, at least I'm never alone; you know what they say--misery loves company---aaah, drinking buddies! ;) I have been able to catch a lot of my negativity but the difficulty is in what to do w/ them (I think I'll put them in a box, wrap it up and give it to my boss!). One phrase my T has given me is to repeat to myself, even if I don't believe it: "I am a good person". "I am a good person." "I am a good person." Nope, think I have to say it a couple hundred more times! :eek:
Compliments are a whole other story. Still don't feel comfortable receiving them.
Thanks tmays. Take care...:)

[Cynthia]

I know it is frustrating to have those setbacks but remember that progress is usually make with two steps forward and one step back. Rarely is pregress a straight line forward. I think you are doing great!

[karai]

Thanks Cynthia,
I'm trying but I think it's going to take a lot more than just jumping over the fence to get to the greener pastures in my mind. I have to practice thinking glass is half full, glass is half full, half full half full yes I'm a fool.....oh, oh, critic crept in there and don't know who that prankster was! Hey, give me back my glass half full of beer! see thinking positive already! :p Take care!

[malign]

Kara, someone in high school taught me the full proverb that starts:
"The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill (or fence)."

The rest is:
"But someone's still got to mow it."

So, okay, that may not sound so positive. But look at it this way: that means that this field right here is just as good as any other (it's already [at least] half-full), so we might as well just get to mowing. That way, there'll be more time for having that picnic, afterwards.

[Cynthia]

Kara, someone in high school taught me the full proverb that starts:
"The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill (or fence)."

The rest is:
"But someone's still got to mow it."

So, okay, that may not sound so positive. But look at it this way: that means that this field right here is just as good as any other (it's already [at least] half-full), so we might as well just get to mowing. That way, there'll be more time for having that picnic, afterwards.

This is great;)

[Cynthia]

Thanks Cynthia,
I'm trying but I think it's going to take a lot more than just jumping over the fence to get to the greener pastures in my mind. I have to practice thinking glass is half full, glass is half full, half full half full yes I'm a fool.....oh, oh, critic crept in there and don't know who that prankster was! Hey, give me back my glass half full of beer! see thinking positive already! :p Take care!

See you caught yourself and self corrected and even added some humor. GREAT JOB!

[tmays]

Hi tmays,
Good hearing from you again. How have you been? :cool:
I have been able to catch a lot of my negativity but the difficulty is in what to do w/ them (I think I'll put them in a box, wrap it up and give it to my boss!). One phrase my T has given me is to repeat to myself, even if I don't believe it: "I am a good person". "I am a good person." "I am a good person." Nope, think I have to say it a couple hundred more times! :eek:
Compliments are a whole other story. Still don't feel comfortable receiving them.
Thanks tmays. Take care...:)

My understanding is that the messages you replace the negative thoughts with need to be replaced with ones you do believe so I don't understand why your T wants you to keep telling yourself you are a good person (which btw I am sure you are) but if you don't elive it when you say it won't stick with you. I think you need to take a step back and ask yourself what is a bad person and after you list what that is see if it fits you and I'm sure it won't. This worked wonders for me.

[Cynthia]

My understanding is that the messages you replace the negative thoughts with need to be replaced with ones you do believe so I don't understand why your T wants you to keep telling yourself you are a good person (which btw I am sure you are) but if you don't elive it when you say it won't stick with you. I think you need to take a step back and ask yourself what is a bad person and after you list what that is see if it fits you and I'm sure it won't. This worked wonders for me.

Excellent analysis tmays:)

[tmays]

Thanks. I hope everyone is anxiety neutral today :)

[Cynthia]

You're welcome and I am feeling pretty anxiety free also. Hope everyone is prepared for the holidays... always stressful, but I feel more ready for them than ever even if I may have to do a lot of thought countering in my TEA forms:rolleyes:

[tmays]

Hi Cynthia,
How did your holidays end up going? I handled the usual family stuff better than I ever have in the past and was able to counter my thoughts in my TEA forms whenever I felt myself about to lose it and they always calmed me down and prevented things from blowing up even more. Happy New Year and I look forward to hearing more about how you are doing:)

[Cynthia]

Mine were great how were yours? I didn't even have to pull out my notepad and do many TEA forms:D

[tmays]

Mine were great how were yours? I didn't even have to pull out my notepad and do many TEA forms:D

That's awesome! I am doing well and so glad you are posting and sharing your knowledge again:)